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  1. #2806
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    #1 playoff scorer all time
    #3 playoff asst all time
    #1 playoff steals all time
    #6 playoff rebounds all time

    No argument keeping someone with these stats out of the top 10
    Ah, Bronsexual maybe?

    These are all great longevity arguments you're making. However, if we're going off the whole package, I can't see this justifying someone in the top five based on these accomplishments alone. Especially, when other players have greater perceived accomplishments comparably.

  2. #2807
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    yeah I'm not docking other players for superior runs where they don't get thre fluff or raw game tallies

  3. #2808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I can see the argument, Bigs are more valuable historically. Depends on the game you prefer
    That doesn't explain Magic and especially Bird.

    It's another list from a LeBron hater. Not that it matters, in 10-15 years when LeBron is one of the legends all the people hating LeBron now will be hating the new guy and talking about how LeBron is Top 2 all-time.

  4. #2809
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    That list looks more like era success vs best player.
    Last edited by ldawg; 01-10-2020 at 11:52 AM.

  5. #2810
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    That list looks more like era success vs best player.
    Even then. Bird won 3 titles and 3 MVPs in his era. LeBron has won 3 titles and 4 MVPs in his. Bird wasn't even as successful in his era as LeBron was in his.

  6. #2811
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    3 greatest players of my lifetime (in the order of when they played) - tier 1 Bird, Jordan, Lebron. After them tier 2 Magic, Olajuwon, Shaq. Kareem was a shell of his old self by the time I started following NBA in the mid-80s so I don't include him since I never saw him in his prime.

    Kobe was obviously a great one, but Lebron is a whole other level.

  7. #2812
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That doesn't explain Magic and especially Bird.

    It's another list from a LeBron hater. Not that it matters, in 10-15 years when LeBron is one of the legends all the people hating LeBron now will be hating the new guy and talking about how LeBron is Top 2 all-time.
    Or maybe the Lebron fans will say how the new guy is Top 2 all time while Lebron slowly slides further down to non-top 10 land? Sounds much more applicable to the situation.

  8. #2813
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Or maybe the Lebron fans will say how the new guy is Top 2 all time while Lebron slowly slides further down to non-top 10 land? Sounds much more applicable to the situation.
    Doubtful. I'd make you a bet right now that in 10 years LeBron's status as Top 5 will be undisputed. But unfortunately neither of us would remember such a bet.

  9. #2814
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Even then. Bird won 3 titles and 3 MVPs in his era. LeBron has won 3 titles and 4 MVPs in his. Bird wasn't even as successful in his era as LeBron was in his.
    On the contrary. Bird didn't have the advantage of modern medicine, sports therapies, nutrition, diet, medical treatments, and many other things that are now available to players these days to increase their longevity. Bird did more in eight years, then LeBron as well as many other all time greats could not. Don't forget, Bird's three MVP's were all consecutive as well. Meaning back to back to back. Bird's peak is pretty much unmatched with the exception of Jordan. Give Bird all the advancements LeBron has been fortunate enough to have, as well as the salary to be able to afford them all, and we'll truly have an even playing field. Who knows how many more titles and MVP's he would have gotten. He also had to compete with the GOAT past 88 pretty much as well, and i believe he came in second place in voting a few times to Jordan as well.
    Last edited by Romeo Naes; 01-10-2020 at 07:14 PM.

  10. #2815
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiG View Post
    3 greatest players of my lifetime (in the order of when they played) - tier 1 Bird, Jordan, Lebron. After them tier 2 Magic, Olajuwon, Shaq. Kareem was a shell of his old self by the time I started following NBA in the mid-80s so I don't include him since I never saw him in his prime.

    Kobe was obviously a great one, but Lebron is a whole other level.
    I just can't see LeBron being on the tier of Jordan/Bird. Also, can't see how anyone including Bird would be on Jordan's tier. I don't really see what LeBron has done that separates him from Kobe to be honest. For him to be on a whole other level? I would need a heck of an explainer if I were to buy that one.

  11. #2816
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    That list looks more like era success vs best player.
    They definitely factor in. I tried to factor in everything. Mostly on impact as what player had the most impact in terms of winning. Even if we were looking at best player, Bird had perhaps the greatest peak of all time compared to anyone not named Michael Jordan. As a player, he is easily above LeBron. The only advantage LeBron holds is in longevity. If anything, that is a marker held due to his era thanks to all the advancements in nutrition, supplements, vitamins, and training methods. Have to factor that stuff in as well.

  12. #2817
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That doesn't explain Magic and especially Bird.

    It's another list from a LeBron hater. Not that it matters, in 10-15 years when LeBron is one of the legends all the people hating LeBron now will be hating the new guy and talking about how LeBron is Top 2 all-time.
    Magic and Bird are both essentially bigs lol. Especially, in today's NBA. Both were 6-10+. Don't know why you say especially Bird, he was the taller of the two I believe. Both were also big time rebounders as well. Both were great at disrupting passing lanes and could sub in for rim protectors if need be and the situation arose. Both did have their issues with lateral movement, but more than made up for it with their size advantage they had over most players playing at the positions they would most likely be guarding.

    Hater, lol. Quite the contrary. I'm actually a fan of the game and of teams, not a player or individual. I think player idolatry is not very mentally healthy. Usually, when one is a "fanboy" of one particular player, the end up becoming a "hater" to anyone else who threatens their boo's legacy. From my own personal experience, it's the "fanboys" who toss the word hater around when someone has an opinion that contradicts how much esteem they place on "their guy". I don't have a horse in this race. I am not a fanboy. Just a fan of the game and certain teams. I'm just calling it how I see it.

  13. #2818
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    Bird did not have to go out and seek additional "help" to win his three titles as well. Which makes his titles far more impressive by my view. Bird is a better shooter, scorer, playmaker, leader, rebounder, far more unselfish, as well as slightly higher basketball IQ, and did not play for his stats and could lead and flourish in a team/championship style of play. The only advantage LeBron has on is is literally longevity and one more Regular Season MVP award. If LeBron had to go against Michael Jordan, let's see how many he would have won. I don't see anyone on the all time list LeBron had to go against in terms of MVP's or even titles for that matter. Bird was competing with Jordan, Magic, Hakeem, and Kareem. As well as Dr. J and Moses Malone.
    Last edited by Romeo Naes; 01-10-2020 at 07:18 PM.

  14. #2819
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That doesn't explain Magic and especially Bird.

    It's another list from a LeBron hater. Not that it matters, in 10-15 years when LeBron is one of the legends all the people hating LeBron now will be hating the new guy and talking about how LeBron is Top 2 all-time.
    Well those guys are still about as tall or taller than Bron, some people have Bron and Kobe on similar tiers while maintaining that Magic was the best Laker and Bird was better than him. Its not that much of a reach imo. I got into this debate simply because the guy wouldn't give any sort of evidence to support anything he was saying.

    I really dont know how to grade Bron against KAJ/Shaq or even Tim Duncan. I have him ahead of all the (s)wings outside MJ but I dont think we should have this clear cut view of him based on longevity mostly. Was APEX Bron really that different from apex versions of the GOAT's?

  15. #2820
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    Seems like this is always a thread on PSD and I have no clue why. It's almost like asking who's better between Bryant and Allen Iverson. The gap is about the same imo.

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