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  1. #2491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    yep, those are good examples. Worthy too, I think, but a key thing here is that those guys weren't out of hs. There was a stigma about drafting guys out of hs and it was almost a thing where coaches wanted to send a message about not playing them. I'm not saying LBJ wouldn't play, I just don't think he would start for a contender (especially one with an all-star at his position) during the mid 90s. This actually has nothing to do with LBJ. This is more of just what the norm was at the time. I'm not saying he wasn't good enough to start or play a big role, I just don't think too many coaches would've allowed it at the time.
    Well what I'm trying to say is how many HS #1 picks went to contenders? None, so there really isn't anything to base either of our opinions on, so I picked what I think is the closest comparison in my opinion which is overall #1 picks drafted to contending basketball teams. The other side of that would be HS #1 overall picks which theres only 1 other, Kwame Brown which we all know how his career turned out.
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  2. #2492
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Well what I'm trying to say is how many HS #1 picks went to contenders? None, so there really isn't anything to base either of our opinions on, so I picked what I think is the closest comparison in my opinion which is overall #1 picks drafted to contending basketball teams. The other side of that would be HS #1 overall picks which theres only 1 other, Kwame Brown which we all know how his career turned out.
    That's fair.

  3. #2493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    He didn't have the ball all of the time. He played within the triangle. If he had the ball more, he would probably have average 6-7 assists for his career. The thing I don't think you're getting is that if Kobe didn't play in the triangle, he would've had crazy numbers. He wouldn't have won as much, but his numbers would've been far better. He would've likely had far more scoring titles and MVPs and would probably be the all-time scoring leader, but he would have far fewer championships (although he still likely would've won a few). The numbers we saw from Kobe were the result of him sacrificing those things for titles. He could've easily had inflated numbers and won substantially less.
    I said that he would of average more points but at the same would not have won as many rings and probably worn down faster. An indicator of that would be the year without Phil and shaq. By the way yes he did play in the triangle but he was giving the go ahead to break it the second go around with Phil which he often did. Kobe created for Kobe the system did not create for Kobe.

  4. #2494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Well we disagree on that, but if that's the case and he's still at basically an all-time level of play (you've said he's better than prime Kobe) then there can be no excuses come June. We're expecting a title or it would have been a massive failure. That's a lot to put on someone, but when you're vying for an all-time spot like LBJ is the expectation should be nothing less given the talent he has around him.
    Record agrees with me

  5. #2495
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  6. #2496
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Record agrees with me
    So does offensive a defensive ranking

    Thatís why you canít just look at all star players and say that guy got more help, you have to look at fit, and this team fits together by far over any team Bron has had and thatís why itís the best team heís been on.

  7. #2497
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    Oh where is Kobe, I thought he was a better scorer? Oh not when it matters apparently...

  8. #2498
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  9. #2499
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    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 03:20 PM.

  10. #2500
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    I'm waiting for the "AD is carrying" LeBron argument to explain away their dominance.

  11. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I'm waiting for the "AD is carrying" LeBron argument to explain away their dominance.
    Just think if this guy was in his prime

  12. #2502
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Record agrees with me
    It does and we're off to a great start and LBJ and AD look great together, especially the last few games. As I've said, if LBJ can show that he can do it without a super team, I'm more than happy to give him credit. He just needs to show it first.

  13. #2503
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    Here we go again over the last few games. The bench still disappoints. Last night lebron sits they fell behind and had to come back in with foul trouble. Plus over the last few games they are not giving him calls.
    Last edited by ldawg; 12-09-2019 at 03:25 PM.

  14. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I'm waiting for the "AD is carrying" LeBron argument to explain away their dominance.
    Won't come from me unless LBJ is no longer a superstar. I've been saying this whole time that as long as each player is a superstar, then the title counts just the same. LBJ has shown that he's still playing at a superstar level and so as long as that remains the case I'm happy to give LBJ credit. Note also that my position on LBJ would not change even if Kobe had never played. I think that everyone has been way to quick to exalt him and put him in the conversation of the GOAT before he's earned it. Winning a few more titles will legitimize him in the discussion of top 5 maybe top 2-3 if he can get another 2-3.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 12-09-2019 at 03:30 PM.

  15. #2505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Won't come from me unless LBJ is no longer a superstar. I've been saying this whole time that as long as each player is a superstar, then the title counts just the same. LBJ has shown that he's still playing at a superstar level and so as long as that remains the case I'm happy to give LBJ credit. Note also that my position on LBJ would not change even if Kobe had never played. I think that everyone has been way to quick to exalt him and put him in the conversation of the GOAT before he's earned it. Winning a few more titles will legitimize him in the discussion of top 5 maybe top 2-3 if he can get another 2-3.
    i think they base it on the impact he has on the game. Not his teammates coach or success of the team.

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