Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 236 of 240 FirstFirst ... 136186226234235236237238 ... LastLast
Results 3,526 to 3,540 of 3596
  1. #3526
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    GMT +2
    Posts
    13,372
    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Do you mean the same way they stopped for MJ, Magic, Larry, Wilt, Kareem, etc.

    There is no reason to stop the Michael Jordan hype.

    Kareem went from a GOAT candidate to just some guy who fills up the Top 5 within a decade. His hype will probably be revived if Lebron is getting closer to reaching him in points scored.

    Bird's media hype ended in the 90s.
    And Wilt is someone whos viewed questionably because theres the claim that he put up great numbers against competition that was beyond crap.

    The only guy that still gets some hype is Magic.

    Just see how the Kobe hype fell in the early 2010s. In 2010 he was considered by several people as a top 3 or 5 player of all time. Recently he barely made the top 10 for some of these "analysts".

  2. #3527
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    31,900
    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Lol at Valade for nitpicking to show his quality. Not top 10 but top 15

    Well done Sherlock, you've proven you're thick.
    The point is you spout complete lies and act like they’re true. And you want us to disregard stats for your opinion, but why would anyone do that when your opinion is so wrong so often?

  3. #3528
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    31,900
    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post


    And why I say "US media" for some as the sole reason for not going any further? Because Lebron sells. There's too many fanboys to please so the media has been catering for their clientele for years. When Lebron retires and his friends aren't involved in the media, we'll see if this stands. I'm pretty sure the shunned voices will return and normality will return along with it.
    If you’re relying on the future for LeBron to start moving down the rankings, you’re going to be sorely disappointed.

  4. #3529
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    GMT +2
    Posts
    13,372
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The point is you spout complete lies and act like they’re true. And you want us to disregard stats for your opinion, but why would anyone do that when your opinion is so wrong so often?
    I've went on about at least fifty times that Bosh was a TOP FIFTEEN player when he joined the Heat. Just because I sometimes used Top 10 because that's what I was talking about in that particular post, doesn't mean I feel that Bosh was a top 10 player back then. But some other were feeling that way. He wasn't unanimously top 10, but he was pretty close.

    The only thing you show by doing this is what has been very clear from the very beginning. You're unwilling to understand and listen to opinions that disagree with yours and you keep nitpicking in the hope that this somehow makes the whole narrative wrong.

    I'm sorry but I'm not writing a test and hoping to get a good mark with every post. It's not an examination, it's a freaking sports forum. Act like it and stop saying **** like this otherwise I'll start doing this with your posts and you will run out of holes to hide in after repeatedly making silly assumptions, misquoting people you disagree with, changing their words and answering completely different things from what was asked...

  5. #3530
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    17,313
    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    There is no reason to stop the Michael Jordan hype.

    Kareem went from a GOAT candidate to just some guy who fills up the Top 5 within a decade. His hype will probably be revived if Lebron is getting closer to reaching him in points scored.

    Bird's media hype ended in the 90s.
    And Wilt is someone whos viewed questionably because theres the claim that he put up great numbers against competition that was beyond crap.

    The only guy that still gets some hype is Magic.

    Just see how the Kobe hype fell in the early 2010s. In 2010 he was considered by several people as a top 3 or 5 player of all time. Recently he barely made the top 10 for some of these "analysts".
    Because the younger generation was not in his era and the game has evolved to a more fast pace ally hoop, slam dunking, three point shooting game. Kareem is still to this day still viewed as #1 or #2 best Center to play the game. That did not change. At some point you guys will get some guys put up great numbers but few stand out for their impact on the game.

  6. #3531
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    31,900
    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    I've went on about at least fifty times that Bosh was a TOP FIFTEEN player when he joined the Heat. Just because I sometimes used Top 10 because that's what I was talking about in that particular post, doesn't mean I feel that Bosh was a top 10 player back then. But some other were feeling that way. He wasn't unanimously top 10, but he was pretty close.

    The only thing you show by doing this is what has been very clear from the very beginning. You're unwilling to understand and listen to opinions that disagree with yours and you keep nitpicking in the hope that this somehow makes the whole narrative wrong.

    I'm sorry but I'm not writing a test and hoping to get a good mark with every post. It's not an examination, it's a freaking sports forum. Act like it and stop saying **** like this otherwise I'll start doing this with your posts and you will run out of holes to hide in after repeatedly making silly assumptions, misquoting people you disagree with, changing their words and answering completely different things from what was asked...
    You have a nasty habit of saying “other people think” without anyone actually thinking that.

    Yes, this is a sports forum, but accuracy is important. You don’t get to say things like “nobody expected the Blazers to make the Finals”, or “Bosh was a top 10 player”, or “nobody has LeBron top 5” or “the defense in the 80’s was better than LeBron’s era” and not get called out on them.

    Yes I’m aware Bosh was a very good player and his Heat team was stacked, that’s never been in doubt. But he was never top 10. We can agree on these points.

    Where we disagree is the notion this somehow invalidates everything LeBron ever did because for 4 years he had a stacked team. Magic had a Top 10 and a Top 15 player (Kareem/Worthy then Worthy/Kareem) and faces nobody of note in the West for 7 years and you don’t seem to give him crap about that.

    In the playoffs from 81 to 87, Magic faces exactly 4 players that are Top 50 all-time in their prime (he faced the Blazers in 85 but Clyde was literally in his 2nd season and 1st as a starter): Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, George Gervin and Alex English.

    He lost to both Moses and Hakeem. And that is over 7 seasons. But just like Clyde, you give Magic a pass for things you vilify LeBron for.

  7. #3532
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    It’s “lose” (not to mention “you’re”). Answer the goddamn question.
    You know your losing the debate badly when you start thinkin you're the grammar police.

  8. #3533
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You have a nasty habit of saying “other people think” without anyone actually thinking that.

    Yes, this is a sports forum, but accuracy is important. You don’t get to say things like “nobody expected the Blazers to make the Finals”, or “Bosh was a top 10 player”, or “nobody has LeBron top 5” or “the defense in the 80’s was better than LeBron’s era” and not get called out on them.

    Yes I’m aware Bosh was a very good player and his Heat team was stacked, that’s never been in doubt. But he was never top 10. We can agree on these points.

    Where we disagree is the notion this somehow invalidates everything LeBron ever did because for 4 years he had a stacked team. Magic had a Top 10 and a Top 15 player (Kareem/Worthy then Worthy/Kareem) and faces nobody of note in the West for 7 years and you don’t seem to give him crap about that.

    In the playoffs from 81 to 87, Magic faces exactly 4 players that are Top 50 all-time in their prime (he faced the Blazers in 85 but Clyde was literally in his 2nd season and 1st as a starter): Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, George Gervin and Alex English.

    He lost to both Moses and Hakeem. And that is over 7 seasons. But just like Clyde, you give Magic a pass for things you vilify LeBron for.
    Worthy was not there for the first two of the Lakers championships. He did not really become a force until about 1987 and by that time Kareem was already 39 years old and almost ready to retire in a bout two seasons from then. So you tell me a year that Magic had a top 10 and a top 15 player at his side.

    You are also selling D-Wade short, he was easily a top 5 player when LeBron joined up with him. Some might even argue that back in 2010-2011 Wade was the slightly better player than LeBron.

  9. #3534
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    278
    How can you people not grasp the concept that there is a difference between not living up to expectations, and melting down/choking.

    Teams who lose in the first or second rounds, or not living up to expectations, and likely were not all that ahead of the pack to begin with. A team that loses in the NBA Finals with the far better cast and has vegas odds on their side is choking. It's even worse when that star player who all his fanboys in the media are calling him "The Chosen One" literally disappears in four consecutive fourth quarters where his team was in striking distance to win it all. Even having significant leads in games in the fourth where he only scored 2 points. 11 total points scored in all fourth quarters for the series. Now that ladies and gentlemen is a choke. The worst choke by an NBA Superstar for All-Time. Yes, the fact that it was the NBA Finals makes it all the more worse. Having that Larry O'brien trophy within the palm of your hands and letting it slip out out of your hands is the definition of a choke literally. Losing in the first round is not even prequalifying for a choke. It's not living up to expectations, or your team was simply not good enough that year. Off year.

    I was telling some of the guys at the bar last night that there are LeBron fans delusional enough to believe that losing in the first round is just as bad a choke as losing in the NBA FInals. Also, that his "Super Team" didn't add to the severity of the choke either. We were cracking up man. lolololol. Thanks for the laugh fellas.

  10. #3535
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    31,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Worthy was not there for the first two of the Lakers championships. He did not really become a force until about 1987 and by that time Kareem was already 39 years old and almost ready to retire in a bout two seasons from then. So you tell me a year that Magic had a top 10 and a top 15 player at his side.

    You are also selling D-Wade short, he was easily a top 5 player when LeBron joined up with him. Some might even argue that back in 2010-2011 Wade was the slightly better player than LeBron.
    First, LeBron was coming off back to back MVPs so whoever was arguing Wade was better didn’t have much leg to stand on.

    Second, yes Magic won 2 titles pre-Worthy, back when he only had literal MVP Kareem, all-stars Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, and former MVP Bob McAdoo coming off the bench. Must have been terrible for him getting by as part of 3 MVPs and 5 All-Stars lol

    Third, in 1986 both Magic and Kareem were All-NBA 1st team and Worthy was an All-Star coming off a legendary Finals MVP. What you mean to say is Worthy didn’t produce the same stats before 1988, but much like Bosh’s stats went down when he went to the Heat, Worthy’s stats were deflated due to having to play 3rd wheel to Magic and Kareem. Once Kareem got old and took a back seat, we saw Worthy’s true potential, but he was always that good. He was the freaking #1 pick (which the Lakers got after literally winning the Championship).

    But it’s a pretty simple question for all those who are fawning over the olden days:

    Whose team would you rather have? Magic’s from 84-87 or LeBron’s from 11-14?

    That’s a real catch-22 for you all: either you say the Lakers and admit other superstars had as much or more talent around them than Bron or you pick the Heat and acknowledge that the newer generation was as good (or in this case better) than the previous one.

    So what’ll it be?

  11. #3536
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    31,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    How can you people not grasp the concept that there is a difference between not living up to expectations, and melting down/choking.

    Teams who lose in the first or second rounds, or not living up to expectations, and likely were not all that ahead of the pack to begin with. A team that loses in the NBA Finals with the far better cast and has vegas odds on their side is choking. It's even worse when that star player who all his fanboys in the media are calling him "The Chosen One" literally disappears in four consecutive fourth quarters where his team was in striking distance to win it all. Even having significant leads in games in the fourth where he only scored 2 points. 11 total points scored in all fourth quarters for the series. Now that ladies and gentlemen is a choke. The worst choke by an NBA Superstar for All-Time. Yes, the fact that it was the NBA Finals makes it all the more worse. Having that Larry O'brien trophy within the palm of your hands and letting it slip out out of your hands is the definition of a choke literally. Losing in the first round is not even prequalifying for a choke. It's not living up to expectations, or your team was simply not good enough that year. Off year.

    I was telling some of the guys at the bar last night that there are LeBron fans delusional enough to believe that losing in the first round is just as bad a choke as losing in the NBA FInals. Also, that his "Super Team" didn't add to the severity of the choke either. We were cracking up man. lolololol. Thanks for the laugh fellas.
    I agree, LeBron’s problem is he had the audacity to make it so many Finals. Imagine how much greater his legacy would be if he simply lost in the 1st round all those years? He’d be the GOAT for sure!

    For the record, I agree LeBron choked. Probably the worst choke of a top 10 all-time player ever. But I don’t believe a single series defines you, nor do I think that losing in the first round is EVER better than losing in the Finals, no matter how bad you played in the Finals.
    Last edited by valade16; 02-22-2020 at 10:26 PM.

  12. #3537
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    GMT +2
    Posts
    13,372
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Whose team would you rather have? Magic’s from 84-87 or LeBron’s from 11-14?

    That’s a real catch-22 for you all: either you say the Lakers and admit other superstars had as much or more talent around them than Bron or you pick the Heat and acknowledge that the newer generation was as good (or in this case better) than the previous one.

    So what’ll it be?

    Depends what the question is exactly.

    I'd take the Lakers as a team. Why? Because they have Magic Johnson and Lebron is not even close to that level.

    If the question is to subtract Lebron and Magic from that team and just compare. Then the Heat get the edge. Lebron had a better support cast in 11-14 than Magic in 84-87. But there is an even bigger issue at play here. But how is better defined? Would those Magic-less Lakers lose to the Lebron-less Heat? Probably not. But compared to peer competition, it is not even close. The Lakers would struggle for a good seed without Magic. Even when replaced with Lebron. If you remove Lebron from the Heat they are still contenders. If you put Magic there, they win 4/4 of the times no questions asked.

    Those Lakers could have potentially lost to at least 5 other teams in any given playoff matchup. Put Magic away and that becomes almost definite and they will struggle to get a good playoff seed as well. Put Lebron out of the Heat and they're still a top 3 seed in the East with Wade + Bosh. And probably a top seed with the addition of Ray Allen in 2012-3 and 2013-14. And probably still one of the favorites for an NBA Finals appearance.


    Magic didn't play in 1991-92 and they went from 2nd seed and NBA contenders to 6th seed.

    Teams like the Warriors and Suns that year exceeded 50 wins. You really think they were better than those 80s teams in the west? You probably would because they won 50+, but in reality they were very similar to the majority of Magic's competition in the West in the 80s.
    The level of disparity in the 2010s is incomparable to that of the 80s. You keep dissing the 80s as if it was some sort of amateur hour. But there was parity in the league. There is almost none now.
    This is why both Magic and Bird are so celebrated. They overcame great teams. And they themselves played on great teams but they were the best. And something unseen before.

    This presumption of yours that I don't rate anyone drafted since the turn of the millennium is probably the silliest that you've displayed in perpetuity so far.

    I said the game is softer and that there is a number of players that wouldn't make the league in the past because they have specific roles and cannot really play under another system or setup. The so called "specialists". In the past you could either play or you couldn't. Now the game is different. The top talent will always exist, but as long as the rules make the game incomparable with the previous versions, I'll not make any jumpy assumptions and conclusions based on incompatible data. I'd suggest you do the same and stop fooling yourself that Lebron's numbers can be in any way an indication of his all time status.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 02-23-2020 at 04:17 AM.

  13. #3538
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    111,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    How can you people not grasp the concept that there is a difference between not living up to expectations, and melting down/choking.

    Teams who lose in the first or second rounds, or not living up to expectations, and likely were not all that ahead of the pack to begin with. A team that loses in the NBA Finals with the far better cast and has vegas odds on their side is choking. It's even worse when that star player who all his fanboys in the media are calling him "The Chosen One" literally disappears in four consecutive fourth quarters where his team was in striking distance to win it all. Even having significant leads in games in the fourth where he only scored 2 points. 11 total points scored in all fourth quarters for the series. Now that ladies and gentlemen is a choke. The worst choke by an NBA Superstar for All-Time. Yes, the fact that it was the NBA Finals makes it all the more worse. Having that Larry O'brien trophy within the palm of your hands and letting it slip out out of your hands is the definition of a choke literally. Losing in the first round is not even prequalifying for a choke. It's not living up to expectations, or your team was simply not good enough that year. Off year.

    I was telling some of the guys at the bar last night that there are LeBron fans delusional enough to believe that losing in the first round is just as bad a choke as losing in the NBA FInals. Also, that his "Super Team" didn't add to the severity of the choke either. We were cracking up man. lolololol. Thanks for the laugh fellas.
    so jordan until he had pippen and an insane supporting cast?

  14. #3539
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    111,303
    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Depends what the question is exactly.

    I'd take the Lakers as a team. Why? Because they have Magic Johnson and Lebron is not even close to that level.

    If the question is to subtract Lebron and Magic from that team and just compare. Then the Heat get the edge. Lebron had a better support cast in 11-14 than Magic in 84-87. But there is an even bigger issue at play here. But how is better defined? Would those Magic-less Lakers lose to the Lebron-less Heat? Probably not. But compared to peer competition, it is not even close. The Lakers would struggle for a good seed without Magic. Even when replaced with Lebron. If you remove Lebron from the Heat they are still contenders. If you put Magic there, they win 4/4 of the times no questions asked.

    Those Lakers could have potentially lost to at least 5 other teams in any given playoff matchup. Put Magic away and that becomes almost definite and they will struggle to get a good playoff seed as well. Put Lebron out of the Heat and they're still a top 3 seed in the East with Wade + Bosh. And probably a top seed with the addition of Ray Allen in 2012-3 and 2013-14. And probably still one of the favorites for an NBA Finals appearance.


    Magic didn't play in 1991-92 and they went from 2nd seed and NBA contenders to 6th seed.

    Teams like the Warriors and Suns that year exceeded 50 wins. You really think they were better than those 80s teams in the west? You probably would because they won 50+, but in reality they were very similar to the majority of Magic's competition in the West in the 80s.
    The level of disparity in the 2010s is incomparable to that of the 80s. You keep dissing the 80s as if it was some sort of amateur hour. But there was parity in the league. There is almost none now.
    This is why both Magic and Bird are so celebrated. They overcame great teams. And they themselves played on great teams but they were the best. And something unseen before.

    This presumption of yours that I don't rate anyone drafted since the turn of the millennium is probably the silliest that you've displayed in perpetuity so far.

    I said the game is softer and that there is a number of players that wouldn't make the league in the past because they have specific roles and cannot really play under another system or setup. The so called "specialists". In the past you could either play or you couldn't. Now the game is different. The top talent will always exist, but as long as the rules make the game incomparable with the previous versions, I'll not make any jumpy assumptions and conclusions based on incompatible data. I'd suggest you do the same and stop fooling yourself that Lebron's numbers can be in any way an indication of his all time status.
    why are people even arguing with this guy exactly?

  15. #3540
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,922
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    You know your losing the debate badly when you start thinkin you're the grammar police.
    You know that you’re losing the debate when you won’t answer the question. Answer the question.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •