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  1. #3541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    How can you people not grasp the concept that there is a difference between not living up to expectations, and melting down/choking.

    Teams who lose in the first or second rounds, or not living up to expectations, and likely were not all that ahead of the pack to begin with. A team that loses in the NBA Finals with the far better cast and has vegas odds on their side is choking.
    Seriously, if Lebron would have lost that first year in the first round, would that be better than losing in the Finals? Iím not sure that top heavy Heat team was ďfar betterĒ than the Mavs team and the Vegas odds wouldnít mean as much if they lost in the first round? And if the Heat lost in the first round after having all the pressure and odds, why would it not be worse than losing in the Finals? What planet are you from? I canít imagine a scenario where it would EVER be better for a team and/or player to lose in the first round over the ****ing Finals. Youíve said a lot of stupid **** in this thread but that might just be the worst thing youíve said.

    It's even worse when that star player who all his fanboys in the media are calling him "The Chosen One" literally disappears in four consecutive fourth quarters where his team was in striking distance to win it all. Even having significant leads in games in the fourth where he only scored 2 points. 11 total points scored in all fourth quarters for the series. Now that ladies and gentlemen is a choke. The worst choke by an NBA Superstar for All-Time. Yes, the fact that it was the NBA Finals makes it all the more worse. Having that Larry O'brien trophy within the palm of your hands and letting it slip out out of your hands is the definition of a choke literally. Losing in the first round is not even prequalifying for a choke. It's not living up to expectations, or your team was simply not good enough that year. Off year.
    We get it, Lebron played poorly in one of the 8 Finals he went to (7 of them being in a row). Doesnít mean heís not Top 5 or even Top 10. Get over it. You are wrong.

    I was telling some of the guys at the bar last night that there are LeBron fans delusional enough to believe that losing in the first round is just as bad a choke as losing in the NBA FInals. Also, that his "Super Team" didn't add to the severity of the choke either. We were cracking up man. lolololol. Thanks for the laugh fellas.
    Iím pretty sure that your buddies either agree with you so you donít waste all night saying the stupid stuff that youíre spouting in this thread or you keep the same dumbass company that believes this garbage.

  2. #3542
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    You know what, guys? Think whatever you want to think but know that youíre in the minority and your basketball IQ is pretty pathetic.

    And since I barely ever see Romeo in other threads Iím just assuming itís soneoneís dupe account thatís just trolling and using google to talk about the older guys. Par for the PSD course.

  3. #3543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Seriously, if Lebron would have lost that first year in the first round, would that be better than losing in the Finals? Iím not sure that top heavy Heat team was ďfar betterĒ than the Mavs team and the Vegas odds wouldnít mean as much if they lost in the first round? And if the Heat lost in the first round after having all the pressure and odds, why would it not be worse than losing in the Finals? What planet are you from? I canít imagine a scenario where it would EVER be better for a team and/or player to lose in the first round over the ****ing Finals. Youíve said a lot of stupid **** in this thread but that might just be the worst thing youíve said.



    We get it, Lebron played poorly in one of the 8 Finals he went to (7 of them being in a row). Doesnít mean heís not Top 5 or even Top 10. Get over it. You are wrong.



    Iím pretty sure that your buddies either agree with you so you donít waste all night saying the stupid stuff that youíre spouting in this thread or you keep the same dumbass company that believes this garbage.
    i doubt he was in a bar or has friends tbh

  4. #3544
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

    What is this clown talking about?


  5. #3545
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

    What is this clown talking about?

    1985 Ė Jordanís rookie year. Bulls lost 3-1 to the Bucks. Jordan went for 30 PPG and 9 APG,
    1986 Ė Jordan only played 22 regular season games. Bulls lost 3-0 to the Celtics. Birdís Celtics went on the win the championship and are possibly the best team ever. Jordan put up almost 44 PPG,
    1987 Ė Bulls lost 3-0 to the Celtics. But again, the Celtics were one of the best teams ever. Jordan averaged 37 PPG.



    now lets look at those bulls teams compared to the help lebron had AND LMFAO... best team ever doesnt mean anything right because the teams lebron faced in the finals ---------------------------------------------> the teams jordan faced in the finals

  6. #3546
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    All teams that Jordan beat in the Finals would have won a ring in almost any given season during the 2010s. Even the finalists of the non-Bulls years (1994 and 1995) would have won in almsot any given season. Try stopping the team of Shaq & Penny in today's era.

    On the other hand, only the Spurs (2014) and perhaps the Heat of 2013 could have reached the Finals in the 90s, but that's also not really guaranteed in any way as they had to come from the West. And that was incredibly hard for any team.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 02-23-2020 at 08:26 AM.

  7. #3547
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Did he regress from 2009 to 2010? No. There were more players to compete for points and the style of play was different than what Bosh exceled at. So please don't imply that Bosh's stats with the Heat are of any relevance. He was a top 10, or even top 15 player at worse.

    I'm pretty sure I recall many Knicks fans preferring going for Bosh instead of Amare back then and Amare was also considered a top 15 player.
    Numbers say his performance regressed. So you're kinda saying Boshs talent was top 10 so that made him a top 10 player even though he wasn't playing at a top 10 level?

    Did Garnett Pirece and Allen all keep their exact same spot in the rankings among NBA players when they came together even though their numbers all dipped?
    Last edited by MarkieMark48; 02-23-2020 at 10:34 AM.

  8. #3548
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Depends what the question is exactly.

    I'd take the Lakers as a team. Why? Because they have Magic Johnson and Lebron is not even close to that level.

    If the question is to subtract Lebron and Magic from that team and just compare. Then the Heat get the edge. Lebron had a better support cast in 11-14 than Magic in 84-87 But there is an even bigger issue at play here. But how is better defined? Would those Magic-less Lakers lose to the Lebron-less Heat? Probably not. But compared to peer competition, it is not even close. The Lakers would struggle for a good seed without Magic. Even when replaced with Lebron. If you remove Lebron from the Heat they are still contenders. If you put Magic there, they win 4/4 of the times no questions asked.

    Those Lakers could have potentially lost to at least 5 other teams in any given playoff matchup. Put Magic away and that becomes almost definite and they will struggle to get a good playoff seed as well. Put Lebron out of the Heat and they're still a top 3 seed in the East with Wade + Bosh. And probably a top seed with the addition of Ray Allen in 2012-3 and 2013-14. And probably still one of the favorites for an NBA Finals appearance.


    Magic didn't play in 1991-92 and they went from 2nd seed and NBA contenders to 6th seed.

    Teams like the Warriors and Suns that year exceeded 50 wins. You really think they were better than those 80s teams in the west? You probably would because they won 50+, but in reality they were very similar to the majority of Magic's competition in the West in the 80s.
    The level of disparity in the 2010s is incomparable to that of the 80s. You keep dissing the 80s as if it was some sort of amateur hour. But there was parity in the league. There is almost none now.
    This is why both Magic and Bird are so celebrated. They overcame great teams. And they themselves played on great teams but they were the best. And something unseen before.

    This presumption of yours that I don't rate anyone drafted since the turn of the millennium is probably the silliest that you've displayed in perpetuity so far.

    I said the game is softer and that there is a number of players that wouldn't make the league in the past because they have specific roles and cannot really play under another system or setup. The so called "specialists". IIn the past you could either play or you couldn't. Now the game is different. The top talent will always exist, but as long as the rules make the game incomparable with the previous versions, I'll not make any jumpy assumptions and conclusions based on incompatible data. I'd suggest you do the same and stop fooling yourself that Lebron's numbers can be in any way an indication of his all time status.
    Wow, thereís so much bull**** here itís hard to unpack it all.

    First Bolded: I love how youíre arguing that LeBronís supporting cast was better but itíd still lose to Magicís this is how bad your tales have got, youíre arguing both sides at the same time lol.

    Second Bolded: Yes, Magic didnít play and they got the 6th seed. When LeBron left the Heat they went 37-45 and missed the playoffs. That was with both Wade and Bosh, and before you try to bring up the Bosh only played 44 games, they went 19-25 in those games as well.

    So if Magicís Lakers would fare so much worse without him and LeBronís Heat wouldnít do much worse, how come Magicís Lakers still made the playoffs once he left and LeBronís Heat became a losing team?

    Third Bolded: Because outside the Lakers, the West was amateur hour. No, there was not parity in the league. The Lakers made 8 out of 10 Finals in the West in the 80ís, the Celtics made 5 out of 10 Finals. That isnít parity, itís the opposite of parity.

    Name me a Western team from 1980-1988 that had two starting players who were top 50 all-time outside the Lakers.

    Stockton didnít even start on the Jazz until 88. Blazers had Clyde, Nuggets had English, Spurs had Gervin, Rockets had Hakeem.

    In all cases it was a single top 50 player on all the teams Magic was facing. I mean, if you really want to try and argue guys like Kiki were top 50 (or an over the hill Gilmore), youíre welcome to try.

    There was zero parity in the West, the Lakers were just far more stacked. Magic and Kareem were perennial All-NBA players (even at Kareemís advanced age) and then they added the #1 pick James Worthy. No other West team had more than 1 All-NBA Caliber player on their team.

    Heck, from 1983-1986 (4 years) not a single Western conference player outside Magic or Kareem even made the All-NBA 1st team.

    Parity my ***.

    Fourth Bolded: Wait, you donít think they had specialists back then?

    What about the plodding defensive/rebounding PF? The Charles Oakleyís, Brian Grantís, Kurt Rambisí of the world? You think they were well rounded players? What about Michael Cooper? Bobby Jones? These guys were all specialists who had very specific roles to fill.


    You obviously donít actually know anything about basketball history, which makes your insistence it was so amazing all the more sad. You admire something you know almost nothing about.

  9. #3549
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

    What is this clown talking about?

    That old clown is talking differences in era. As humans we adopt. It has nothing those guys did back then that the guys of today cant do. If it had a 3 point line back in the day they would have utilize it just the same. Key word Ability. As a man you think if push come to shove you cant cook in the woods living in a mud hut using a horse as transportation if that is the norm. For some strange reason humans look back rather than forward and look up in the sky for answers to problems. He is doing exactly what one would expect. Granny still cant get use to her cell phone. I wonder why, is it that shes just not use to it.

    If Lebron, Harden, Howard, etc played in that era their mental approach to the game would have been different. They have the tools and ability to play more physical if that was the norm in 80s. The smaller guys like Nash, Curry base on their size may have found it more difficult since it was a big mans game and the rules did not favor the guards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k2JM_455Sk


    you dont think these guys will fight push just the same if the league allow physical play? Would they just conclude Pistons is just more physical. It have a reason they cleaned it up. The fights would have been worst today if that continued. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwAWLrLLqNU

    How would the rule changes of today affect the big men of yesterday, would he also need to adopt?
    Last edited by ldawg; 02-23-2020 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #3550
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

    What is this clown talking about?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

    From the exact same interview. He states when LeBron is done heíll be at the top of the SF list. And he talks about how great a defender LeBron is.

    Something tells me now that he said LeBron is so good suddenly you donít think his opinion carries much weight.

  11. #3551
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Wow, thereís so much bull**** here itís hard to unpack it all.

    First Bolded: I love how youíre arguing that LeBronís supporting cast was better but itíd still lose to Magicís this is how bad your tales have got, youíre arguing both sides at the same time lol.
    I pity the US education system. If you pass as an above average communicator, I just don't want to see what else there is. Though actually we do have a lot of those in here too.

    Your comprehension ability is so remarkably awful that you are not able to understand the simplest of forms.

    Lakers with Magic vs Heat with Lebron = Lakers win
    Lakers without Magic vs Heat without Lebron = Heat probably win
    Lakers with Lebron vs Heat with Magic = Heat definitely win

    Is this easier to understand now? Do you want me to bring the multiplication table after this?

    As for your specialists remark. You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about (quelle surprise!!).

    A specialist is a guy who has one skill that he's specializing in and he doesn't do much other than that. Because he's incapable of doing it, not because his instructions are such. He has the same 'special' role in every team he gets to play at.


    Maybe if you actually had seen all Open Court episodes you'd see when Kenny Smith brought this up how everyone agreed with him when he talked about that. Or how in another episode he was like "superstars from today's era would have been average in the 80s" and everyone pretty much agreed. Only Steve Kerr added what was a valid statement. Coaching is indeed better now. You do need better coaching, especially on D, because it's almost illegal to play defense. In the past you just had to glue to your man. And most guys were good defenders and the rules were tailored in their favor so that even enhanced their individual quality as well obviously, which also made it tougher for an offensive player.
    But what you don't know is that most of this coaching influence came from Europe, from guys I worked with [and is considered the greatest coach in the world by everyone in the business] and in some cases even hired former players of these guys for a pro basketball club I was working with...

    Guys like Charles Oakley - not him specifically - perhaps excelled at defending and rebounding (two things) but could also post up (not great, but average), had a midrange shot among other skills. They just weren't high in the team's order as others could do that better. There are guards today that cannot dribble, pass or control the tempo. There are bigs that cannot post up. There are shooting guards that cannot shoot. It's a different game.

    Better to the eye for someone who doesn't appreciate the good sport and just wants something with a fast pace, not so great for someone who values good basketball skills.
    Last edited by NYKalltheway; 02-23-2020 at 02:16 PM.

  12. #3552
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    That old clown is talking differences in era. As humans we adopt. It has nothing those guys did back then that the guys of today cant do. If it had a 3 point line back in the day they would have utilize it just the same. Key word Ability. As a man you think if push come to shove you cant cook in the woods living in a mud hut using a horse as transportation if that is the norm. For some strange reason humans look back rather than forward and look up in the sky for answers to problems. He is doing exactly what one would expect. Granny still cant get use to her cell phone. I wonder why, is it that shes just not use to it.

    If Lebron, Harden, Howard, etc played in that era their mental approach to the game would have been different. They have the tools and ability to play more physical if that was the norm in 80s. The smaller guys like Nash, Curry base on their size may have found it more difficult since it was a big mans game and the rules did not favor the guards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k2JM_455Sk


    you dont think these guys will fight push just the same if the league allow physical play? Would they just conclude Pistons is just more physical. It have a reason they cleaned it up. The fights would have been worst today if that continued. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwAWLrLLqNU

    How would the rule changes of today affect the big men of yesterday, would he also need to adopt?
    Hubie knows 10x as much about basketball as anyone on this board. He has forgot 10x as much as anyone on this board.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  13. #3553
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post

    you dont think these guys will fight push just the same if the league allow physical play? Would they just conclude Pistons is just more physical. It have a reason they cleaned it up. The fights would have been worst today if that continued. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwAWLrLLqNU

    How would the rule changes of today affect the big men of yesterday, would he also need to adopt?
    Oh, I do. For not all of these guys but a lot of them. And it'd be a much better product of basketball.

    But this would hurt their stat sheet and everyone obsessed over ranking these guys just because they have some stats that they haven't witnessed in a long while. Not because they are better or the game is better, but exactly because it's easier and teams don't really play that well defense.

    And while I do agree that coaching has improved over the year, it's still not good enough. The best coaching was during the hard-nosed early 2000s until the mid-late 2000s. At least 25/30 coaches wouldn't really get first team jobs in the Euroleague and from the other 5 guys it'd be mostly due to name value rather than quality. I can honestly say that only Popovich would be a legit coach in this side of the ocean, at lesst for a team that wants to win. There's a huge gap in coaching. Even College coaches, who are better than the NBA guys who are mostly required to tame divas, aren't really considered any good whenever they make a switch to Europe.
    Defensive coaching in the NBA has improved and has been improving over time because it was non-existent at some point.
    Actual coaching was a thing in the 60s and 70s. In the 80s it was free style basketball, which guys like Chronz and Valade think they are the only ones aware of that. But that didn't mean they didn't play defense. They just didn't execute team defense as well as they did in the late 90s and 2000s. The players themselves played much better defense individually and when the team clicked, it was also extremely tough collectively. That was the case more often than not, since roster changes were not that prelavent. There were very few transactions year in, year out. Fast forward to the 2000s and even more in the 2010s and you see completely different teams year in, year out. Heck, even the superstars cannot stick to one team for more than 5 seasons!

    If the rules had never changed, the argument isn't that Lebron would not have been the best in his era. He probably still would have been that guy. But it wouldn't be so exaggerated. Only his deluded fanboys would claim he was top 10, just like today the only people who have him in their top 10 is because of his stats accumulated in this soft era! How can you take someone like Isiah Thomas for example seriously, someone who claims it's too easy to play in this era and at the same time says Lebron > Jordan out of bitterness? There's too many guys out there who follow the same fallacy.

    Since most people are young here and at worst case scenario had GameBoys growing up... Imagine playing a video game on very easy mode and break records that others had set in extremely hard mode. How is that even comparable? Just acknowledge that it's a completely different sport. If you want to claim Lebron has GOAT allure then you're playing the What If game.

  14. #3554
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Hubie knows 10x as much about basketball as anyone on this board. He has forgot 10x as much as anyone on this board.


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    He might know more about basketball base on his experience but he puts his pants on one leg at a time like everyone else. Like everyone else he have no clue how the era would affect each player.
    Last edited by ldawg; 02-23-2020 at 05:40 PM.

  15. #3555
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    He might know more about basketball base on his experience but he puts his pants on one leg at a time like everyone else. Like everyone else he have no clue how the era would affect each player.
    I didnít listen to the video or read any of these mindless post. Im still sure you calling Hubie Brown and old clown like he doesnít have a clue is pretty stupid


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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