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  1. #3391
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    Dec 2016
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    235
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    What are you talking about? Debating with you is pointless and going nowhere. Iím not sidestepping, I just know when itís pointless to keep arguing with a guy that only debates to try to prop his hatred for a player. If you really think this stuff, then you do you, bro. Just realize that youíre in the vast minority from PSD users, talking heads, players, GMs, and NBA legends. Yup, everyone is wrong except you and NYKalltheway. Keep living your best life.
    Keep on listening to guys like Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, and Collin Cowherd. Five dudes on some random website on the internet who mostly have weak arguments that stem from their "love" of their favorite player is hardly convincing evidence to me. Fact is most former and current players don't follow that agenda. Now, do I listen to either set of opinions? No, I am capable of formulating my own opinion based on the current data laid out in front of me. Not only that, but I realize how weak it is to use other people's opinions to validate my own. I can actually back up what I say without using such a false crutch.
    Last edited by Romeo Naes; Today at 08:54 AM.

  2. #3392
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    235
    Duplicate.

  3. #3393
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    31,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I feel like you are putting words into my mouth and or twisting the narrative to in order to nullify the blow that the 2011 NBA Finals were to the legacy of LeBron James. I never said LeBron was the only player ever to choke and or have a bad game or series. That would be ridiculous.

    What I am saying and have said was that LeBron's performance in the 2011 NBA Finals was the worst choke job/meltdwon by far in the history of the game. It was on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, and yes that matter big time. So, while you may keep brining me examples of first round and second round losses, those will never equal a loss in the NBA Finals; especially, when you just put together the most talented big three of all-time using free agency in a way that players before you were never able to. Yes, that sets the bar a lot higher for LeBron and makes his degree of difficulty on the championships he did win down.

    Dwayne Wade was balling in that series and Chris Bosh was having a great series as well. LeBron was a bout 10 ppg under his norm for the time and he went ghost in four straight forth quarters where those games were up for the taking. Not only were those games close, but the Heat had comfortable leads in a few of those. LeBron literally did nothing but freeze up. He went ghost/invisible and contributed literally nothing to his team which should have been on the verge of winning. He only scored 11 points in 6 fourth quarters that series. 2.2 ppg. That's laughable.
    Nothing is worse than that. No first or second round loss can even be compared. Just the fact of being in the NBA Finals shows that your team was good enough to win it all and you were the closest of any other team that year other than one other. This is not rocket science people.

    Not only that, but LeBron was able to have a hand in putting his team together and brought together the most talented big three of all-time all still in their respective primes. To make matters even worse, after that horrific loss, he would not change up his game or system at all, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh had to learn how to play off the ball better in order to better accommodate the LeBron Jame's system and style of play. Not to mention all the pep talks Dwayne Wade had to give him that following off season to quell his bruised ego. By far the worst meltdown/choke job for an NBA all-time great as an individual. The fact that it was on the biggest stage, the players he had around him, and the fact that his team had a sizable advantage over their opponent all are the key ingredients for this failure cocktail. The greatest failure of all-time. Sad but true.

    I mean, if you can't come up with something on a bigger stage than the NBA Finals, at least give me a scenario where a team was the odds on favorites to win it all at least and lost in the ECF, or WCF to a significantly weaker opponent, and the debacle can be mainly attributed to the lack luster play of their supposed star player at least.
    This makes no sense. Getting farther in the playoffs is always better than not. Choking in the 1st round for a superstar on a title contender is worse than choking in the Finals.

    Youíre saying if LeBron had done the exact same thing only in the 1st round instead of the Finals thatís be better? Thatís like saying Tracy McGrady has a more impressive playoff resume than Karl Malone because at least he didnít lose in the Finals.

  4. #3394
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,827
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    Keep on listening to guys like Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, and Collin Cowherd. Five dudes on some random website on the internet who mostly have weak arguments that stem from their "love" of their favorite player is hardly convincing evidence to me. Fact is most former and current players don't follow that agenda. Now, do I listen to either set of opinions? No, I am capable of formulating my own opinion based on the current data laid out in front of me. Not only that, but I realize how weak it is to use other people's opinions to validate my own. I can actually back up what I say without using such a false crutch.
    I donít listen to any of those guys (I do, however, still have my Shannon Sharpe jersey from back in the dayó-the only sports jersey I ever boughtó-didnít know he was debating basketball these days). Iíve also formed my own opinion and it just so happens to align with 99% of people on the subject.

  5. #3395
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    45,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I feel like you are putting words into my mouth and or twisting the narrative to in order to nullify the blow that the 2011 NBA Finals were to the legacy of LeBron James. I never said LeBron was the only player ever to choke and or have a bad game or series. That would be ridiculous.

    What I am saying and have said was that LeBron's performance in the 2011 NBA Finals was the worst choke job/meltdwon by far in the history of the game. It was on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, and yes that matter big time. So, while you may keep brining me examples of first round and second round losses, those will never equal a loss in the NBA Finals; especially, when you just put together the most talented big three of all-time using free agency in a way that players before you were never able to. Yes, that sets the bar a lot higher for LeBron and makes his degree of difficulty on the championships he did win down.

    Dwayne Wade was balling in that series and Chris Bosh was having a great series as well. LeBron was a bout 10 ppg under his norm for the time and he went ghost in four straight forth quarters where those games were up for the taking. Not only were those games close, but the Heat had comfortable leads in a few of those. LeBron literally did nothing but freeze up. He went ghost/invisible and contributed literally nothing to his team which should have been on the verge of winning. He only scored 11 points in 6 fourth quarters that series. 2.2 ppg. That's laughable.
    Nothing is worse than that. No first or second round loss can even be compared. Just the fact of being in the NBA Finals shows that your team was good enough to win it all and you were the closest of any other team that year other than one other. This is not rocket science people.

    Not only that, but LeBron was able to have a hand in putting his team together and brought together the most talented big three of all-time all still in their respective primes. To make matters even worse, after that horrific loss, he would not change up his game or system at all, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh had to learn how to play off the ball better in order to better accommodate the LeBron Jame's system and style of play. Not to mention all the pep talks Dwayne Wade had to give him that following off season to quell his bruised ego. By far the worst meltdown/choke job for an NBA all-time great as an individual. The fact that it was on the biggest stage, the players he had around him, and the fact that his team had a sizable advantage over their opponent all are the key ingredients for this failure cocktail. The greatest failure of all-time. Sad but true.

    I mean, if you can't come up with something on a bigger stage than the NBA Finals, at least give me a scenario where a team was the odds on favorites to win it all at least and lost in the ECF, or WCF to a significantly weaker opponent, and the debacle can be mainly attributed to the lack luster play of their supposed star player at least.
    I already gave you a hint. championship caliber team, loses in r1 (might've been r2 I'll double check later) to a vastly inferior squad while you get locked down. 4th quarters? imagine an entire series of inefficiency and no shows

  6. #3396
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,827
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This makes no sense. Getting farther in the playoffs is always better than not. Choking in the 1st round for a superstar on a title contender is worse than choking in the Finals.

    Youíre saying if LeBron had done the exact same thing only in the 1st round instead of the Finals thatís be better? Thatís like saying Tracy McGrady has a more impressive playoff resume than Karl Malone because at least he didnít lose in the Finals.
    Dirk took a team to 67 wins and a first place finish in the West in Ď07 but at least he didnít lose in the Finals that year! What is this guy talking about? That was the Heatís big threeís first year together and they had some growing pains and hardly any depth. Lebron finally had a few star players around him and just choked. Hard. Against a team that had been killing it for almost a decade but couldnít get over the hump. The Mavs finally went on that impressive run.

    That could take him out from being over Jordan (although he could still do it with more rings) but thatís about it. This guy is making it sound like itís a career breaker.

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