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  1. #8116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    LBJ has to shave his head and beard though...if he comes back with that next season, I might have to knock him back down a few notches haha
    That OR...imo...let it all go gray and let the bald spot shine even more. That would be awesome hahaha..like Clyde but more gray.

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  2. #8117
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    uh oh. Case closed?

  3. #8118
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    That OR...imo...let it all go great and let the bald spot shine even more. That would be awesome hahaha..like Clyde but more gray.

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  4. #8119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    uh oh. Case closed?
    Nah, not just yet for me (but almost). If this happens again next year there will be no resistance from me.

  5. #8120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Nah, not just yet for me (but almost). If this happens again next year there will be no resistance from me.
    Nice there you go thats the sprit. Dont get caught in the moment

  6. #8121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Nice there you go thats the sprit. Dont get caught in the moment

  7. #8122
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    I will say your argument lost alot of steam however. The only hope was in context but even that will be much of a stretch now Lebron is way to accomplished.

  8. #8123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    I will say your argument lost alot of steam however. The only hope was in context but even that will be much of a stretch now Lebron is way to accomplished.
    Oh he definitely answered the questions I had and to that I say great job and much respect.

  9. #8124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    The other examples fit just as well though man and as I said, the examples aren't really going to answer our question, because I was simply asking about a technical issue of how these are weighted and posed that question about 10 assists 0 pts vs 20 pts on 10/20 shooting. I also said that I could be wrong but that it was my intuition from quickly glancing at the formula that the player with 10 assists would end up with a higher PER.

    I don't really feel like re-hashing all of these points, but to remind you, we settled on basically calling them borderline superstars, but not quite (or at least I did). Pau I don't think belongs in that discussion and I'm not sure Pippen does either, but he's probably closer to it than Pau. I view Cousins pre injury and Love (at least when he was in minny) as guys who could be first options. I don't view Pippen or Pau like that. We've discussed all of these things though, I think maybe you forget about the nuances of these points, I'm not sure, but in the end it doesn't matter, because I was acknowledging that LBJ is one win away from proving me wrong and that was the point of the posts that you responded to today.
    Not at all, you haven't provided an example even as close as the Kidd one. This had all those factors favoring the passer and the gap of about 2-1 and NOTHING you have provided does anything even remotely like that actually. The reason is that it isn't out there in the same manner because that is how the statistic actually works. Handing the ball off 20 times isn't necessarily getting you 10 assists especially if not creating, those are arbitrary numbers you are choosing now anyways than the initial statement that doesn't work either. As noted though you don't provided examples of similar level you actually try cherry picking then pretending yours are somehow more valuable and others are wrong like you did with this despite providing 0 examples even close.

    I know we have discussed it but you have never given reasons for the inconsistency/double standards in using stats and it was not in the way you referenced with Valade. The issue is you don't just decide to use them for role players or HOF you were doing it for superstars in this thread often and that is very meaningful given you also only count rings if in this arbitrary superstar label too. None of it matters though, he just won with his 3rd team and set of teammates and answered any remaining questions that would be had then anyways then. He now has just as many rings as a superstar but was FMVP for 2 more and the focal point unlike Kobe etc. as was covered so he matches the rings argument superstar wise and has the stats and accolades now on top of this argument so seems pretty clear now then no?

  10. #8125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Not at all, you haven't provided an example even as close as the Kidd one. This had all those factors favoring the passer and the gap of about 2-1 and NOTHING you have provided does anything even remotely like that actually. The reason is that it isn't out there in the same manner because that is how the statistic actually works. Handing the ball off 20 times isn't necessarily getting you 10 assists especially if not creating, those are arbitrary numbers you are choosing now anyways than the initial statement that doesn't work either. As noted though you don't provided examples of similar level you actually try cherry picking then pretending yours are somehow more valuable and others are wrong like you did with this despite providing 0 examples even close.

    I know we have discussed it but you have never given reasons for the inconsistency/double standards in using stats and it was not in the way you referenced with Valade. The issue is you don't just decide to use them for role players or HOF you were doing it for superstars in this thread often and that is very meaningful given you also only count rings if in this arbitrary superstar label too. None of it matters though, he just won with his 3rd team and set of teammates and answered any remaining questions that would be had then anyways then. He now has just as many rings as a superstar but was FMVP for 2 more and the focal point unlike Kobe etc. as was covered so he matches the rings argument superstar wise and has the stats and accolades now on top of this argument so seems pretty clear now then no?
    I haven't provided examples, because I said that it's not something that we should be answering with examples and that examples aren't useful for answering. I was simply talking about the technicality of how it's computed (I used those numbers specifically when the initial topic came up).

    LBJ does now have as many titles as Kobe had as a superstar. He needs one more for me to put him ahead of Kobe, but I have put him ahead of Bird and Shaq and now have it as a toss up between Kobe and LBJ and Magic. If LBJ can win one more, even as a full blown Robin, I will move LBJ firmly ahead of Kobe and Magic into the #3 spot.

  11. #8126
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    Alright fellas, I'm out of here for a while. it's been nice debating this topic. Much credit to LBJ, he had a great season and as I've noted, answered the questions I had. He's moved up on my list for sure. I'll return once basketball starts to pick back up. Just so we're clear, LBJ was the best player on the team this year and the clear leader. He led this team and he deserved the Finals MVP no question about it, imo. Great year!

  12. #8127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I haven't provided examples, because I said that it's not something that we should be answering with examples and that examples aren't useful for answering. I was simply talking about the technicality of how it's computed (I used those numbers specifically when the initial topic came up).

    LBJ does now have as many titles as Kobe had as a superstar. He needs one more for me to put him ahead of Kobe, but I have put him ahead of Bird and Shaq and now have it as a toss up between Kobe and LBJ and Magic. If LBJ can win one more, even as a full blown Robin, I will move LBJ firmly ahead of Kobe and Magic into the #3 spot.
    That others can provide these examples showing it pretty clearly goes against this. We can use all time great as in like arguably best ever type passers with these advantages and show they STILL have lower PER due to how the stat favors volume scoring more and use examples of said volume scorers in various ways. You can't do the reverse because the stat doesn't favor passing in the same way. The way it is computed is what makes this true, especially the part about only needing just over 30% shooting for it to benefit you.

    He has the rings, the stats and the accolades now. The only thing Kobe has is a ring when he wasn't even a superstar by your own criteria? That makes no sense given all those advantages he has. Winning as a Robin changes the outlook of his career how exactly lol? That is just saying he had tons of support when he was aging not anything overly impressive that would change everything he did up until now.

  13. #8128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    LBJ has to shave his head and beard though...if he comes back with that next season, I might have to knock him back down a few notches haha
    You laugh but I wouldn’t be surprised. A lot of your reasonings seem about as lame.

  14. #8129
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    According to me Kobe is a better player compared to lebron.

  15. #8130
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    This dupe that has one post will provide further evidence to Biggin’ that the debate still rages.

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