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  1. #4846
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    he was just making an example.
    Bad example

  2. #4847
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    We're comparing alphas but you bring up a role player fortunate to be on great teams. When comparing alphas championships IMO hold more weight then individual stats.

    Unless you're saying Kobe was a role player.
    Like I said, Kobe was fortunate enough to be drafted (we actually, he plotted his way) to a team that had Shaquille OíNeal. This allowed him to win 2 titles as a beta, he was not the aloha on that 3-peat.

    I think Kobe was absolutely fortunate to be drafted to the Lakers compared to LeBron being drafted to the Cavs.

    I also think if youíre comparing titles as the alpha, itís 3-2 LeBron.

  3. #4848
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    We're comparing alphas but you bring up a role player fortunate to be on great teams. When comparing alphas championships IMO hold more weight then individual stats.

    Unless you're saying Kobe was a role player.
    When comparing alphas, MVPs would be more telling as winning rings is a total team effort. When Jordan was at his most dominant, he didnít win any rings. He won when the team around him got better and the teams he was playing against got older and worse. I could easily build a team around Jordan that would never win no matter how much he harnessed his skills. Does that mean he is still not the GOAT if I put trash around him that canít help him win?

  4. #4849
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Like I said, Kobe was fortunate enough to be drafted (we actually, he plotted his way) to a team that had Shaquille OíNeal. This allowed him to win 2 titles as a beta, he was not the aloha on that 3-peat.

    I think Kobe was absolutely fortunate to be drafted to the Lakers compared to LeBron being drafted to the Cavs.

    I also think if youíre comparing titles as the alpha, itís 3-2 LeBron.
    Yep if Lebron had a Wade and Pat Early in his career he would have gotten a head start like the rest of them. Curry, MJ, Lebron, Wade, Shaq i think was in a similar situation. Duncan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Kawhi, i think in the same boat. They had otherto lean on and show them the ropes.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-23-2020 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #4850
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Like I said, Kobe was fortunate enough to be drafted (we actually, he plotted his way) to a team that had Shaquille OíNeal. This allowed him to win 2 titles as a beta, he was not the aloha on that 3-peat.

    I think Kobe was absolutely fortunate to be drafted to the Lakers compared to LeBron being drafted to the Cavs.

    I also think if youíre comparing titles as the alpha, itís 3-2 LeBron.
    Well i seen alot of posters quoting nba players and personal on their opinions so why shouldn't we take LBJs opinion. LBJ himself said that the Heat were Wades team, not his.

  6. #4851
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Yep if Lebron had a Wade and Pat Early in his career he would have gotten a head start like the rest of them. Curry, MJ, Lebron, Wade, Shaq i think was in a similar situation. Duncan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Kawhi, i think in the same boat.
    When you compare the situations it really is laughable how much better every other top 10 player had it than LeBron (minus Jordan and Wilt).

    Kobe had Shaq
    Shaq got Penny year 2
    Duncan had David Robinson
    Hakeem had Ralph Sampson
    Magic has Kareem
    Bird had Parish and McHale year 2
    Kareem has Oscar Robertson year 2


    And yet people think itís a coincidence that the only 3 players who didnít make the Finals their first 3-4 years in the league just so happened to be the 3 Top 10 players who didnít play with another All-NBA player those years.

  7. #4852
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    The Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers have been to the finals 31 times and won 16 times. The Boston Celtics have won the most titles, 17, but only been to the finals 21 times.

    Is it because of 1 player or does this franchise put players in a good situation to win. Did playing for the Lakers increase your odds to win a title? Does Playing for the Cavs decrease your odds?
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-23-2020 at 09:25 PM.

  8. #4853
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    Well i seen alot of posters quoting nba players and personal on their opinions so why shouldn't we take LBJs opinion. LBJ himself said that the Heat were Wades team, not his.
    He means the heart and soul of the team. That doesnít mean best player. LeBron won 2 MVPs on those Heat teams, Wade 0. LeBron was All-NBA 1st team ever year, Wade never once made the 1st team. LeBron finished ahead of Wade in MVP voting every season. He scored more points and took more shots every season. LeBron was Finals MVP for both their championships.

    If Wade was the better player those years, how come nothing says that and nobody else thought so?

    LeBron was the alpha on those teams.

    LeBron

  9. #4854
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    Well i seen alot of posters quoting nba players and personal on their opinions so why shouldn't we take LBJs opinion. LBJ himself said that the Heat were Wades team, not his.
    And thats the year they lost. Not that it mean anything but that was Lebron letting Wade lead what you all think he should do more of for Love a guy you cant even count on to be healthy.

  10. #4855
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    When you compare the situations it really is laughable how much better every other top 10 player had it than LeBron (minus Jordan and Wilt).

    Kobe had Shaq
    Shaq got Penny year 2
    Duncan had David Robinson
    Hakeem had Ralph Sampson
    Magic has Kareem
    Bird had Parish and McHale year 2
    Kareem has Oscar Robertson year 2


    And yet people think itís a coincidence that the only 3 players who didnít make the Finals their first 3-4 years in the league just so happened to be the 3 Top 10 players who didnít play with another All-NBA player those years.
    its a double standard one have to keep fact checking.

  11. #4856
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    He means the heart and soul of the team. That doesnít mean best player. LeBron won 2 MVPs on those Heat teams, Wade 0. LeBron was All-NBA 1st team ever year, Wade never once made the 1st team. LeBron finished ahead of Wade in MVP voting every season. He scored more points and took more shots every season. LeBron was Finals MVP for both their championships.

    If Wade was the better player those years, how come nothing says that and nobody else thought so?

    LeBron was the alpha on those teams.

    LeBron
    Who said anything about Wade being the better player? LBJ himself said that the Heat were Wades team, that makes Wade the alpha and LBJ the beta. No matter who was the better player.

    Same like the Spurs were Duncans team the year they beat the Heat even though Kawhi was the better player.

  12. #4857
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    Quote Originally Posted by McAllen Tx View Post
    Who said anything about Wade being the better player? LBJ himself said that the Heat were Wades team, that makes Wade the alpha and LBJ the beta. No matter who was the better player.

    Same like the Spurs were Duncans team the year they beat the Heat even though Kawhi was the better player.
    Yet and still Bron won season and finals mvps on those teams. He transcended childish labels. Thatís why Iíd rather go by statistics. You can call them whatever you want. But what they were and how they impacted the game shows in the stats.

  13. #4858
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    When you compare the situations it really is laughable how much better every other top 10 player had it than LeBron (minus Jordan and Wilt).

    Kobe had Shaq
    Shaq got Penny year 2
    Duncan had David Robinson
    Hakeem had Ralph Sampson
    Magic has Kareem
    Bird had Parish and McHale year 2
    Kareem has Oscar Robertson year 2


    And yet people think itís a coincidence that the only 3 players who didnít make the Finals their first 3-4 years in the league just so happened to be the 3 Top 10 players who didnít play with another All-NBA player those years.
    Drob and Lebron have the same type of entry. No help and to good to let the team be bad enough to improve.

  14. #4859
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    So why are the Lakers competitive 99 percent of the time? big-name players and coaches have contributed to the Lakers success. Lakers have proven time and time again over the years that they make smart decisions.That's just how it is. How long should it take Lebron or who ever to figure this out? How long should he have remained remained with the Cavs. They were not bad enough to get a high pick and was not good enough to dominate. Also not free agents top choice. Did playing for the Lakers increased your chances of winning a title? What would Phil jackson first exit meeting tell lebron to work on playing with prime dominant Shaq? Hey i need you to work on your 3 point shot hey read this book. Before he hit his prime already got a ring.
    Last edited by ldawg; 05-23-2020 at 10:13 PM.

  15. #4860
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Yet and still Bron won season and finals mvps on those teams. He transcended childish labels. Thatís why Iíd rather go by statistics. You can call them whatever you want. But what they were and how they impacted the game shows in the stats.
    So any label that doesn't benefit LBJ is childish? What if someone says MVPs were crap, a popularity contest. Really, Nash has as many as Kobe and Shaq combined.

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