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  1. #8251
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    A role player that made a big shot so you include them in the superstar role. So you have to include players like Glen Rice, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, definitely MWP any role player that made a big shot on the Lakers too.... Oh yea and add prime Dwight Howard and Steve Nash to Kobes side too bc remember that failed superteam LA tried to build? Now I know Kobe got hurt and didnt play in the playoffs, but the whole season they were around .500 and way below expatiations.
    I mean, if you're going to go that far, then LBJ played with Shaq as well, along with Larry Hughes, Jamison, and Iggy (who was actually an all-star caliber player while with LBJ). Allen was a role player, but kind of taking a lesser role. Just the year before he was still an all-star and honestly didn't look at all like he had lost a step. It seemed to me like it was more Allen taking a lesser role to win a title than him not still being an excellent player. I don't really include Allen as one of LBJ's all-star teammates, but I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say that he was still on that level.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-23-2021 at 07:32 PM.

  2. #8252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What context was a I referring to dude? You made a troll post and I called out. You don't see me giving LBJ a hard time about getting eliminated in the first round of this years playoffs, because of course the team was undermanned because LBJ and AD were hurt.
    You pick and choose when to use context or not depending on how it makes Kobe look. If you canít at least admit that then cool, bro. Real cool.

  3. #8253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I think everybody wants a guy with Kobeís mentality over pretty much anybody ever (along with MJ). I loved the ďno excusesĒ and ďnot being there to make friendsĒ thing Kobe did. But I think that that toughness clouds a lot of judgments when comparing players. Thereís a fine line between toughness and volatility and between Shaq having had enough (or being run out) and no big name guys in their prime wanting to join him, that mentality held him (and his team) back at times it seems.


    But the bolded answers the question for you so thanks.
    Shaq left, but Gasol came in and Kobe won two more. But I get what youíre saying.

    If Iím great at what I do and others are hesitant to work with me that just speaks to their insecurities or lack of commitment. Kobe was loyal to his craft. Guys like Howard were just to goofy to appreciate it.

  4. #8254
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    A role player that made a big shot so you include them in the superstar role. So you have to include players like Glen Rice, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, definitely MWP any role player that made a big shot on the Lakers too.... Oh yea and add prime Dwight Howard and Steve Nash to Kobes side too bc remember that failed superteam LA tried to build? Now I know Kobe got hurt and didnt play in the playoffs, but the whole season they were around .500 and way below expatiations.
    I dunno, I think Ray still had a lot of gas in the tank when he got to Miami. He could still fully play even when he retired. If he was such a glorified role player why were Pierce and them so cheesed about him leaving? Plus Ray didnít just hit ďaĒ big shot, he hit ďtheĒ big shot that saved their run. With out that shot Lebron has one less ring. But hey if you wanna leave him off the list thatís fine. I get he wasnít a tier one super star at that point.

  5. #8255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    You pick and choose when to use context or not depending on how it makes Kobe look. If you canít at least admit that then cool, bro. Real cool.
    I always use context, which is why I actually don't give LBJ a super hard time about his finals record, but I also don't give him that much credit (outside of it speaking to his longevity) for reaching the finals so many times, because the context is that the East was horrible and some of those teams didn't belong in the finals...but I don't really harp on him coming up short with bad teams because that's not really fair (e.g., 2006 and 2018 Cavs, 2019 Lakers)
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-23-2021 at 07:52 PM.

  6. #8256
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I dunno, I think Ray still had a lot of gas in the tank when he got to Miami. He could still fully play even when he retired. If he was such a glorified role player why were Pierce and them so cheesed about him leaving? Plus Ray didnít just hit ďaĒ big shot, he hit ďtheĒ big shot that saved their run. With out that shot Lebron has one less ring. But hey if you wanna leave him off the list thatís fine. I get he wasnít a tier one super star at that point.
    Yeah, I honestly always had the same impression. Ray Allen was still an excellent player and I think his style of play and skillset made him the perfect compliment to LBJ (even if Allen was no longer at an elite level)

  7. #8257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, I honestly always had the same impression. Ray Allen was still an excellent player and I think his style of play and skillset made him the perfect compliment to LBJ (even if Allen was no longer at an elite level)
    He was an excellent compliment to LBJ, but he was no longer at an elite or even all-star level.

    Dude was 37 in Miami, and the year before in Boston he was banged up, played half the season and scored the lowest PPG since his rookie year.

    While I think he was still a very valuable contributor to them, he does not belong on a list of star teammates LBJ was with.

  8. #8258
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Shaq left, but Gasol came in and Kobe won two more. But I get what youíre saying.

    If Iím great at what I do and others are hesitant to work with me that just speaks to their insecurities or lack of commitment. Kobe was loyal to his craft. Guys like Howard were just to goofy to appreciate it.
    Gasol was traded there. He didnít sign as a FA.
    And thereís a difference between being good at what you do where others canít rise to your level and you being a straight up prick.

  9. #8259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I mean, if you're going to go that far, then LBJ played with Shaq as well, along with Larry Hughes, Jamison, and Iggy (who was actually an all-star caliber player while with LBJ). Allen was a role player, but kind of taking a lesser role. Just the year before he was still an all-star and honestly didn't look at all like he had lost a step. It seemed to me like it was more Allen taking a lesser role to win a title than him not still being an excellent player. I don't really include Allen as one of LBJ's all-star teammates, but I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say that he was still on that level.
    That's my point... they shouldn't be included bc they weren't the same player, neither should any of the guys I named for Kobe (with the exception of Dwight Howard) ... Ray Allen was 2 years removed from being an all star before joining the heat because he was hurt and he left the celtics because he was upset that Avery Bradley was getting his playing time. There were trade rumors that the celtics were going to move him at the deadline the year before he left, which I think was the main reason he left.

    I think it's completely unreasonable to include Ray Allen, a bench role player in with AD, Irving, Love, Wade, and Bosh. He was a 3 point sniper at that stage of his career, that's all... might as well include Richard Jefferson too then, he was pretty good in his prime and was a bench role player. Mike Bibby, Rondo, oh Marc Gasol from this past year, ect... oh yea and gatta throw in Malone and Payton for Kobe

  10. #8260
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    He was an excellent compliment to LBJ, but he was no longer at an elite or even all-star level.

    Dude was 37 in Miami, and the year before in Boston he was banged up, played half the season and scored the lowest PPG since his rookie year.

    While I think he was still a very valuable contributor to them, he does not belong on a list of star teammates LBJ was with.
    Yeah, I think that's a fair point

  11. #8261
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    That's my point... they shouldn't be included bc they weren't the same player, neither should any of the guys I named for Kobe (with the exception of Dwight Howard) ... Ray Allen was 2 years removed from being an all star before joining the heat because he was hurt and he left the celtics because he was upset that Avery Bradley was getting his playing time. There were trade rumors that the celtics were going to move him at the deadline the year before he left, which I think was the main reason he left.

    I think it's completely unreasonable to include Ray Allen, a bench role player in with AD, Irving, Love, Wade, and Bosh. He was a 3 point sniper at that stage of his career, that's all... might as well include Richard Jefferson too then, he was pretty good in his prime and was a bench role player. Mike Bibby, Rondo, oh Marc Gasol from this past year, ect... oh yea and gatta throw in Malone and Payton for Kobe
    Karl Malone was one year removed from being an All-Star when he went to LA, same as Ray for Miami. And Gary Payton was an all-star literally the year before going to LA.

    I would never include them in a list of star players Kobe played with.

  12. #8262
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I dunno, I think Ray still had a lot of gas in the tank when he got to Miami. He could still fully play even when he retired. If he was such a glorified role player why were Pierce and them so cheesed about him leaving? Plus Ray didnít just hit ďaĒ big shot, he hit ďtheĒ big shot that saved their run. With out that shot Lebron has one less ring. But hey if you wanna leave him off the list thatís fine. I get he wasnít a tier one super star at that point.
    Exactly he was a bench role player that could knock down 3s.

  13. #8263
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    That's my point... they shouldn't be included bc they weren't the same player, neither should any of the guys I named for Kobe (with the exception of Dwight Howard) ... Ray Allen was 2 years removed from being an all star before joining the heat because he was hurt and he left the celtics because he was upset that Avery Bradley was getting his playing time. There were trade rumors that the celtics were going to move him at the deadline the year before he left, which I think was the main reason he left.

    I think it's completely unreasonable to include Ray Allen, a bench role player in with AD, Irving, Love, Wade, and Bosh. He was a 3 point sniper at that stage of his career, that's all... might as well include Richard Jefferson too then, he was pretty good in his prime and was a bench role player. Mike Bibby, Rondo, oh Marc Gasol from this past year, ect... oh yea and gatta throw in Malone and Payton for Kobe
    I agree that Allen in 2013 doesn't fit with the other guys that were mentioned

  14. #8264
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Karl Malone was one year removed from being an All-Star when he went to LA, same as Ray for Miami. And Gary Payton was an all-star literally the year before going to LA.

    I would never include them in a list of star players Kobe played with.
    I wouldn't either, but if we are including old dudes that were once good to try to pump up the players Lebron and Kobe played with than ya gatta throw them in

  15. #8265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Gasol was traded there. He didnít sign as a FA.
    And thereís a difference between being good at what you do where others canít rise to your level and you being a straight up prick.
    Thatís the thing Iíve never heard of Kobe being a prick. Most players sang his praises even before he passed. Iíve heard a lot more stories about MJ being a prick than Kobe and MJ is general consensus goat.

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