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Thread: Zack Wheeler

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Who the hell is "Zach" Wheeler btw?
    Why didn't you just fix it?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Why didn't you just fix it?
    Because then his quip would be meaningless.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Alonso was a rookie, as was McNeil last year. Did they exceed expectations. After 2020, what will the Mets have in their rotation?

    Point is young ball players are a fraction of the cost of what FA is. The Mets quality prospects for overpriced veterans. The Mets can’t sustain building a team this way. That’s why Kay, Dunn, SWR, Peterson and Kelenic were brought up. The Mets gave up 14 potential seasons in Kay and SWR for a pitcher that will give the team 1 & half seasons before he is a Free Agent.

    Since you like traditional stats so much, Wheeler, Stroman and Soroka had 18 quality starts last year. And the Mets had 83 quality starts for 3rd in MLB.
    That's great but most rookies **** the bed or never come close to hitting their ceiling. Are we going to assume that the Mets strike gold with every young player they bring up?

    You're right, its a young mans game but fans love prospects way too much sometimes. They fall into this cycle of if the team hits on a handful, they'll keep hitting on them when the % don't work out that way.

    I'm more comfortable with losing Wheeler today than I was before they acquired Stroman and yeah, I always felt the move was two fold. I think Stroman is better than the way he pitched with the Mets in the second half and I'm fairly certain the Mets aren't ponying up the money for Wheeler in FA.
    Last edited by metswon69; 10-09-2019 at 11:57 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Stroman has a 4.15 FIP with the Mets, and his walks went up. I’m not bashing Stroman. He’s not worth the prospects for a year and a half seasons when you have a pitcher like Wheeler that you can sign and two prospects.
    His xFIP was 3.84 with the Mets. Wheeler’s was 4.08. HR/FB% can be variable as Edwin Diaz can attest.

    If we can make the playoffs next year with him being a big piece, then it makes sense. They can choose to extend Stroman if they wish. He wouldn’t cost as much as Wheeler because of the bias against short right-handed starting pitchers.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    That's great but most rookies **** the bed or never come close to hitting their ceiling. Are we going to assume that the Mets strike gold with every young player they bring up?

    You're right, its a young mans game but fans love prospects way too much sometimes. They fall into this cycle of if the team hits on a handful, they'll keep hitting on them when the % don't work out that way.

    I'm more comfortable with losing Wheeler today than I was before they acquired Stroman and yeah, I always felt the move was two fold. I think Stroman is better than the way he pitched with the Mets in the second half and I'm fairly certain the Mets aren't ponying up the money for Wheeler in FA.
    Seriously? Every player was a rookie at one time. Everyone.
    Take a look at the Mets prospects, there have been more hits than misses. And most of the misses haven't even made to the parent club.

    If you want I could list them.

    Are the Mets going to pony up for Stroman after next year? If not, the Mets are in a world of hurt in 2021.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    His xFIP was 3.84 with the Mets. Wheeler’s was 4.08. HR/FB% can be variable as Edwin Diaz can attest.

    If we can make the playoffs next year with him being a big piece, then it makes sense. They can choose to extend Stroman if they wish. He wouldn’t cost as much as Wheeler because of the bias against short right-handed starting pitchers.
    I wish Edwin Diaz could hang his hat on his 3.07 xFIP.

    I hope the Mets can make the playoffs, because the window is closing real fast and we have to wait another 2 years before Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio and Allen are in AA and AAA.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Seriously? Every player was a rookie at one time. Everyone.
    Take a look at the Mets prospects, there have been more hits than misses. And most of the misses haven't even made to the parent club.

    If you want I could list them.

    Are the Mets going to pony up for Stroman after next year? If not, the Mets are in a world of hurt in 2021.
    Who cares? Most prospects don't hit their ceilings. Most minor leaguers don't make the major leagues. The %s don't work in their favor and I'm sure you're aware of that, despite your constant attempts to suggest the Mets are any different.

    Yeah the Mets have had some luck recently. That doesn't mean they are going to hit on every prospect that comes up.

  8. #53
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    Does anyone think 4/70 gets Wheeler back for the Mets?

  9. #54
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    I think Wheeler will hold out for 100M. Don't know if any team will give it to him but he will definitely hold out until after Cole signs IMO.

    That's part of the reason I kind of want to just move on from him, because if we wait him out we may end up with no one. Although that isn't necessarily the worst thing as we are dealing from a position of strength right now.

    And there's always Gio Gonzalez, Dallas Keuchel, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Jake Odorizzi, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Wade Miley, Brett Anderson, Julio Teheran, and Chris Archer who we can take a chance on as a #5 starter.

    That's part of the beauty of the trade for Stroman. Now at the very least we have a 1-4 of DeGrom, Syndergaard, Stroman, Matz and can just take a flier on someone who has had a down year in that final spot.

    As opposed to DeGrom, Syndergaard, Matz and needing two guys

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    I think Wheeler will hold out for 100M. Don't know if any team will give it to him but he will definitely hold out until after Cole signs IMO.

    That's part of the reason I kind of want to just move on from him, because if we wait him out we may end up with no one. Although that isn't necessarily the worst thing as we are dealing from a position of strength right now.

    And there's always Gio Gonzalez, Dallas Keuchel, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Jake Odorizzi, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Wade Miley, Brett Anderson, Julio Teheran, and Chris Archer who we can take a chance on as a #5 starter.

    That's part of the beauty of the trade for Stroman. Now at the very least we have a 1-4 of DeGrom, Syndergaard, Stroman, Matz and can just take a flier on someone who has had a down year in that final spot.

    As opposed to DeGrom, Syndergaard, Matz and needing two guys
    Agreed.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Who cares? Most prospects don't hit their ceilings. Most minor leaguers don't make the major leagues. The %s don't work in their favor and I'm sure you're aware of that, despite your constant attempts to suggest the Mets are any different.

    Yeah the Mets have had some luck recently. That doesn't mean they are going to hit on every prospect that comes up.
    Most minor leaguers aren't prospects. You keep using this luck thing as if the baseball gods have something to do with this. The reason the Mets had success was because they put in place an amateur scouting department that is pretty good at finding talent and they are able to develop that talent. This luck thing has nothing to do with the Mets success in their farm.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiley6 View Post
    Does anyone think 4/70 gets Wheeler back for the Mets?
    was thinking 4/72 so maybe.


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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Most minor leaguers aren't prospects. You keep using this luck thing as if the baseball gods have something to do with this. The reason the Mets had success was because they put in place an amateur scouting department that is pretty good at finding talent and they are able to develop that talent. This luck thing has nothing to do with the Mets success in their farm.
    Most prospects still don't hit their ceilings. Luck was a figure of speech. They've been lucky in the sense that a 26 year old McNeil was able to make the major leagues. Its a numbers game and the numbers don't support your argument. The Mets have been solid at developing positional player talent. Their pitching aside from deGrom started in other team's systems and clearly they haven't been nearly as good at developing arms. Hence all their bullpen issues as well.

    Relying on those guys to solve your problems is a bad idea. Eventually you need to acquire major league talent.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    I think Wheeler will hold out for 100M. Don't know if any team will give it to him but he will definitely hold out until after Cole signs IMO.

    That's part of the reason I kind of want to just move on from him, because if we wait him out we may end up with no one. Although that isn't necessarily the worst thing as we are dealing from a position of strength right now.

    And there's always Gio Gonzalez, Dallas Keuchel, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Jake Odorizzi, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Wade Miley, Brett Anderson, Julio Teheran, and Chris Archer who we can take a chance on as a #5 starter.

    That's part of the beauty of the trade for Stroman. Now at the very least we have a 1-4 of DeGrom, Syndergaard, Stroman, Matz and can just take a flier on someone who has had a down year in that final spot.

    As opposed to DeGrom, Syndergaard, Matz and needing two guys
    Great post. Exactly my sentiments. I think Jake Odorizzi for example will be significantly cheaper than Wheeler and would he a great replacement.

    I want absolutely no part of Wheeler for around $100m. I’d give him 5/$75m tops, but I’d prefer 4 years. I don’t believe 2 above average seasons after years of being hurt/ineffective warrant anything more than that. I hope the QO diminishes his market and he comes back.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    That's great but most rookies **** the bed or never come close to hitting their ceiling. Are we going to assume that the Mets strike gold with every young player they bring up?

    You're right, its a young mans game but fans love prospects way too much sometimes. They fall into this cycle of if the team hits on a handful, they'll keep hitting on them when the % don't work out that way.

    I'm more comfortable with losing Wheeler today than I was before they acquired Stroman and yeah, I always felt the move was two fold. I think Stroman is better than the way he pitched with the Mets in the second half and I'm fairly certain the Mets aren't ponying up the money for Wheeler in FA.
    Knowing how they won’t sign every one of their FA, we basically knew Wheeler was going to move on.

    They might sign Syndergaard long term.

    Also as far as rookies go is not like most of the young’s the Mets has brought up lit the world on fire, Nimmo, Smith and Rosario had all struggled and Conforto had been up and down as far as production goes.

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