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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I have a hard time having a discussion with you because of your rudeness.

    Gleyber Torres is a very good player, but defensively at SS he isnít. If Iím trading my SS, I need him to be an upgrade defensively over Amed. This team lacks quality defensive players.

    And I would say no deal in your scenario.
    Please explain how I am being rude ? We disagree, is that being rude ? In my mind , and you can disagree.,along with Acuna, Bellinger, Soto, and Bregman ,Torres might be one of the best young player in the majors and if I can have him on my team I would. Rosario will never reach the level of stardom that Torres will, but once again it is just my opinion which is worth or worthless as anyone elses.

    You probably know more about analytics than I do, but just watching baseball as I have done for the past 70 years, I can in my mind know who is good defensively and who is not. While stats may say otherwise, I do not think that Rosario is so much a better fielder than Torres and Torres is just so much a better offensive player than Rosario that in my opinion it overcomes any advantage that Rosario might have over him defensively.

    Our discussions started when I thought that Soroka was a better pitcher than Wheeler this year and you thought they were equal. Not that it matters because your opinion is just as worthwhile as Evan Roberts; and Joe Beningo's opinions are , but this question was posed to them awhile ago and both agreed that Soroka was the better pitcher.
    Last edited by Brooklyndave; 10-15-2019 at 11:31 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Is DRS not on FanGraphs?
    Oh wait, it is.
    Iíll wait for an apology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I have a hard time having a discussion with you because of your rudeness
    The irony is you are not above being snarky.
    ďIt is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly.Ē -- Teddy Roosevelt

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    The irony is you are not above being snarky.
    Says the king of Snark.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyndave View Post
    Please explain how I am being rude ? We disagree, is that being rude ? In my mind , and you can disagree.,along with Acuna, Bellinger, Soto, and Bregman ,Torres might be one of the best young player in the majors and if I can have him on my team I would. Rosario will never reach the level of stardom that Torres will, but once again it is just my opinion which is worth or worthless as anyone elses.

    You probably know more about analytics than I do, but just watching baseball as I have done for the past 70 years, I can in my mind know who is good defensively and who is not. While stats may say otherwise, I do not think that Rosario is so much a better fielder than Torres and Torres is just so much a better offensive player than Rosario that in my opinion it overcomes any advantage that Rosario might have over him defensively.

    Our discussions started when I thought that Soroka was a better pitcher than Wheeler this year and you thought they were equal. Not that it matters because your opinion is just as worthwhile as Evan Roberts; and Joe Beningo's opinions are , but this question was posed to them awhile ago and both agreed that Soroka was the better pitcher.
    Last week you exclaimed that you were thankful that I wasn't the GM. Two weeks ago you decided to correct my spelling of "Soroka"... I could go on and on but whats the point. If you want to discuss baseball let's discuss it. If you want to be flippant, I can get that from, YoungStuna, Metswon69 and Dugmet so there is no point.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  5. #65
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    Should the Mets still move Rosario to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Is DRS not on FanGraphs?
    Oh wait, it is.
    Iíll wait for an apology.
    Youíre not getting any apology from me. We all know bWAR is based off DRS and fWAR is based off UZR. Donít act like you donít know that.

    So if youíre gonna ignore DRS in this case (because it suits your argument for Amed being a better defensive player than Torres) when you were using DRS to say the Mets were the 2nd worst defensive team in baseball in 2019, well then I donít wish to debate with you any further.

  6. #66
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    Should the Mets still move Rosario to CF?

    Gleyber Torres played a grand total of 16 games at 2nd base in the minor leagues. Itís not a surprise that his 2B defensive metrics havenít been good because heís learning a new position.

    At SS his defensive metrics have been much better.

    1 DRS and -8.1 UZR/150 in 811 career innings at SS.

    According to UZR, he turns double plays well and his range has been slightly below average like Rosarioís has been. He made a bunch of errors at SS last season in a short space of time in 2018 (similar to Rosarioís woes early this season).

    So if Rosario is a better defensive SS (I donít think that he is or itís a push at best), itís because he has had much more time to develop at SS on the MLB level than Torres has had.

    Torres is a year younger than Rosario at 22 years old and his bat already looks fantastic with huge power. He would still hit 30+ HR on the Mets if the baseball stays the same.

    Iím 100% certain that every GM in baseball would deal Rosario for Torres in a heartbeat. No question.

  7. #67
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    Should the Mets still move Rosario to CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Says the king of Snark.
    Says the one that made ďBut you knew thatĒ a forum meme.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ďIt is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly.Ē -- Teddy Roosevelt

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Says the one that made ďBut you knew thatĒ a forum meme.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hey!

    That was me! Why am I in this back and forth?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  9. #69
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    Dec 2013
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    2,274
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Last week you exclaimed that you were thankful that I wasn't the GM. Two weeks ago you decided to correct my spelling of "Soroka"... I could go on and on but whats the point. If you want to discuss baseball let's discuss it. If you want to be flippant, I can get that from, YoungStuna, Metswon69 and Dugmet so there is no point.
    I just offered you the chance to discuss baseball. Reread my post.

  10. #70
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    Nov 2009
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    4,288
    Quote Originally Posted by mookiewilson View Post
    Fred: What are you doing Jeff?
    Jeff: Playing with my Mets dolls and Fisher Price Citi Field stadium
    Fred: Something doesn't look right there Jeff.
    Jeff: Well I putz McNeil in the OF cuz I likes him there. And I putz Rosario in the stands selling concessions.
    Fred: You can't do that.
    Jeff: BUT I WANNA!!!!! ITS MINE!!!! MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!!
    Fred: Ok Jeff i'll have McNeil play OF but if we put Rosario in the stands, then I would have to increase the salary for every concession seller we have to make it fair due to labor laws. If that happens, then you don't get ice cream.
    Jeff: Ok, I'll put Rosario back at SS. Can I still have some ice cweam?
    Fred: Sure Jeff, whatever you want, you get.
    Jeff: Good, I want to be manager of the Mets.

  11. #71
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    Nov 2006
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    Don't think moving Rosario to CF makes sense right now, considering I don't believe he would be much of, if any, upgrade over Nimmo or Conforto. Second, I don't really see a market out there for SS either, so you're just filling one hole to create another.

    In terms of Rosario's defensive value, I think the statistics and eye test both tell us he's below average at this point in his development. A lot of his negative value towards the beginning of his career came from his inability to make "routine" plays. He seems to have cleaned that up, from what I saw he had a bit of defensive "yips" highlighted in that span early on this past season. However, despite his speed he doesn't seem to have quick reflections or natural reads (which IMO is backed by his low SB totals in relation to his overall sprint speeds). Defensively, I think this is about as good as it will get for Rosario, and he will grade out below average to average over the next few years. To take the next step, his bat will need to continue the improvement we saw this year, specifically in the power and on base departments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Piazza View Post
    But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful.

  12. #72
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