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  1. #46
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    well if Lebron is over rated so is all players leading us right back to roughly where each player stand. Besides free throws. What one cant say if Ai had kobe size he would be better than kobe or if Kobe had Lebron size he would be better. Thing is it has things on the floor that Lebron does or did that Kobe just was not good at. Kobe can score 35ppg as well is Lebron even if they go by it different ways.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    well if Lebron is over rated so is all players leading us right back to roughly where each player stand. Besides free throws. What one cant say if Ai had kobe size he would be better than kobe or if Kobe had Lebron size he would be better. Thing is it has things on the floor that Lebron does or did that Kobe just was not good at. Kobe can score 35ppg as well is Lebron even if they go by it different ways.
    What exactly are those things? The only thing LBJ clearly did better than Kobe was rebound (but that can be attributed to differences in size) and take better shots (but a lot of that is also LBJ protecting his fg% and not taking end of quarter shots or shots late in the clock). Kobe was far better off the ball, in the post, as a shooter, and had a far wider array of shots that he could make. LBJ is a better passer and playmaker, but kobe was pretty good at those things and he didn't have to dominate the ball to the extent that LBJ does to do it. Kobe was also a better defender. The only thing kobe was bad at was basically shot selection because he would take really tough shots.

    My biggest gripe against LBJ has always been that he puts up inflated and often meaningless stats at the cost of winning, because to do it he takes his star teammates out of the game and turns them into role players. Kobe never had this issue and was able to put up similar numbers while learning to play along his star teammates (and in doing so sacrificing his own output). That is, Kobe's output could have been much greater had he not made that sacrifice.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Dude, I really don't think that you watch the games.
    You ask me if I watch games. You are a clown for real. You mention all this playoff missing, but donít acknowledge being a 3rd seed befor Lebron got injured, and then donít mention he got injured and act like it had nothing to do with not making the playoffs.

    Where did you guys find this POS?

    You are playing some dumb aó games.

    Did you watch any games?

    You do know Lebron had you at a 3 seed before he got hurt donít you?

    Wow...ffs...no stat having, bs eye test having, fact ignoring ignorant mofo.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What exactly are those things? The only thing LBJ clearly did better than Kobe was rebound (but that can be attributed to differences in size) and take better shots (but a lot of that is also LBJ protecting his fg% and not taking end of quarter shots or shots late in the clock). Kobe was far better off the ball, in the post, as a shooter, and had a far wider array of shots that he could make. LBJ is a better passer and playmaker, but kobe was pretty good at those things and he didn't have to dominate the ball to the extent that LBJ does to do it. Kobe was also a better defender. The only thing kobe was bad at was basically shot selection because he would take really tough shots.

    My biggest gripe against LBJ has always been that he puts up inflated and often meaningless stats at the cost of winning, because to do it he takes his star teammates out of the game and turns them into role players. Kobe never had this issue and was able to put up similar numbers while learning to play along his star teammates (and in doing so sacrificing his own output). That is, Kobe's output could have been much greater had he not made that sacrifice.
    BS. When Kobe had his worst team around him, he avg 24 puts a game and had his worst prime year. Kobe shot the hell out of the ball. He got Shaq removed because Shaq was in his mind holding him back. He also ratted on Shaq when he got caught up. Stop son. Your eye test sucks

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    You ask me if I watch games. You are a clown for real. You mention all this playoff missing, but donít acknowledge being a 3rd seed befor Lebron got injured, and then donít mention he got injured and act like it had nothing to do with not making the playoffs.

    Where did you guys find this POS?

    You are playing some dumb aó games.

    Did you watch any games?

    You do know Lebron had you at a 3 seed before he got hurt donít you?

    Wow...ffs...no stat having, bs eye test having, fact ignoring ignorant mofo.
    Wow that struck a nerve lol. We were actually tied for 3rd and then he came back (and we were still in it when he did come back) and played just as bad with him back as we did with him out so what does that tell you lol. The ship went down with LBJ at the helm, like it or not that is what happened. It showed a horrible ability to lead. That team makes the playoffs with Kobe, easily...easily! No question about it.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    BS. When Kobe had his worst team around him, he avg 24 puts a game and had his worst prime year. Kobe shot the hell out of the ball. He got Shaq removed because Shaq was in his mind holding him back. He also ratted on Shaq when he got caught up. Stop son. Your eye test sucks
    You mean in 2005? He was playing injured the massive majority of the season. The closest we ever saw kobe do what LBJ does and basically control the offense (which is why LBJ puts up the numbers he does) was in 2006 when Kobe was basically carrying a lot of miles and injuries on him. If had the chance to go play in the east and basically do whatever he wanted to where the entire scheme revolves around him he would have put up video game-like numbers for several year that would warp anything LBJ has done. Kobe instead won championships though...5 >3 my man. That's the only relevant fact here. It also says a lot that shaq has kobe over LBJ despite his history with kobe. He also happened to play with both in their primes...says a lot, but then again so does 5 > 3
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-02-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #52
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  8. #53
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    The funny thing is, all the misguided and misinterpreted statistics can be thrown out there...it doesn't offset the 5 titles kobe won a 3-peat and a back-to-back, which were won the old fashioned way, in an honorable manner. In contrast, LBJ has won 3, one on a back-to-back and a single (one of those coming in a shortened season...and he had to artificially form super teams to do it. Frankly, it's not a debate as far as I'm concerned. If LBJ can win another 2 or so while still being a top 5 player or at least top 10, then I think we can begin to have the debate. Kobe's 5 would still be worth considerably more because of the 3-peat and the fact that he didn't cheat to get any of his, but at least it wouldn't be a silly debate at that point. Until then, not really even up for discussion. Kobe > LBJ

    My list goes as follows:
    Wilt
    MJ
    Kareem
    Magic/Kobe
    Bird
    Russell
    Shaq
    LBJ (although a strong case can be made for Hakeem and several outside of the top 10 because no player until Harden has dominated the ball and offense to put up inflated, largely meaningless statistics like LBJ and we really have no idea what everyone else on this list and many other greats would do if they did that)
    Hakeem
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 10-02-2019 at 04:07 PM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    What exactly are those things? The only thing LBJ clearly did better than Kobe was rebound (but that can be attributed to differences in size) and take better shots (but a lot of that is also LBJ protecting his fg% and not taking end of quarter shots or shots late in the clock). Kobe was far better off the ball, in the post, as a shooter, and had a far wider array of shots that he could make. LBJ is a better passer and playmaker, but kobe was pretty good at those things and he didn't have to dominate the ball to the extent that LBJ does to do it. Kobe was also a better defender. The only thing kobe was bad at was basically shot selection because he would take really tough shots.

    My biggest gripe against LBJ has always been that he puts up inflated and often meaningless stats at the cost of winning, because to do it he takes his star teammates out of the game and turns them into role players. Kobe never had this issue and was able to put up similar numbers while learning to play along his star teammates (and in doing so sacrificing his own output). That is, Kobe's output could have been much greater had he not made that sacrifice.
    well besides freethrows and defense lebron post better numbers and is more efficient. Lets just say Kobe is closer to AI and Lebron is closer to Magic. Lebron can play all 5 positions where Kobe is limited to sg/sf.

  10. #55
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    This is getting hot n spicy!

    Your baby can't do this

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    The funny thing is, all the misguided and misinterpreted statistics can be thrown out there...it doesn't offset the 5 titles kobe won a 3-peat and a back-to-back, which were won the old fashioned way, in an honorable manner. In contrast, LBJ has won 3, one on a back-to-back and a single (one of those coming in a shortened season...and he had to artificially form super teams to do it. Frankly, it's not a debate as far as I'm concerned. If LBJ can win another 2 or so while still being a top 5 player or at least top 10, then I think we can begin to have the debate. Kobe's 5 would still be worth considerably more because of the 3-peat and the fact that he didn't cheat to get any of his, but at least it wouldn't be a silly debate at that point. Until then, not really even up for discussion. Kobe > LBJ

    My list goes as follows:
    Wilt
    MJ
    Kareem
    Magic/Kobe
    Bird
    Russell
    Shaq
    LBJ (although a strong case can be made for Hakeem and several outside of the top 10 because no player until Harden has dominated the ball and offense to put up inflated, largely meaningless statistics like LBJ and we really have no idea what everyone else on this list and many other greats would do if they did that)
    Hakeem
    i know we like to measure players by the number of rings but thats like saying Ai or Barkley were not great players.

    Shaq is one of the best Centers to ever lace em up but unless my Kid stands 7' 300 pounds of pure muscle Shaq would not be the center i ask to train him. My point is it had players that were more skilled than Shaq but his size gave him an advantage. So will you measure him by skills or his numbers?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    well besides freethrows and defense lebron post better numbers and is more efficient. Lets just say Kobe is closer to AI and Lebron is closer to Magic. Lebron can play all 5 positions where Kobe is limited to sg/sf.
    Scoring wise, kobe was substantially better...Kobe's numbers are down because he came off the bench for his first 2.5 years and then his last 2 years he was basically a shell of himself because of the injury. LBJ does score more efficiently, the problem is those numbers haven't led to winning on the same level as Kobe, which leads one to question whether efficiency (as is presently measured) actually means too much. A big thing about their efficiency is that LBJ gets a large chunk of his shots at the rim so it makes sense that he would have a higher fg%, just like most big men have a higher fg% than perimeter players. From 2000-2004 and 2008-2011 Kobe had great teams (that's 9 years) and he won 5 titles. From 2011-2018, and in 2020 LBJ had great teams (will be 9 years) and LBJ presently only has 3 titles. It says a lot.

    I agree that AI and Barkley are great players and so titles aren't the only factor, but when you're distinguishing among the best ever, it makes a big difference, because most great players can put up insane numbers if everything revolves around them, but that doesn't lead to winning so they don't do that. Harden is actually a good example. He's nowhere near the player that his numbers suggest he is and he will never in a million years win a title playing like that. If he played the right way, he'd average more like 23 and 5...he'd probably win a lot more, but then the numbers wouldn't be great. I believe the same exact applies to LBJ.

  13. #58
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    Wow you guys are very motivated.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Scoring wise, kobe was substantially better...Kobe's numbers are down because he came off the bench for his first 2.5 years and then his last 2 years he was basically a shell of himself because of the injury. LBJ does score more efficiently, the problem is those numbers haven't led to winning on the same level as Kobe, which leads one to question whether efficiency (as is presently measured) actually means too much. A big thing about their efficiency is that LBJ gets a large chunk of his shots at the rim so it makes sense that he would have a higher fg%, just like most big men have a higher fg% than perimeter players. From 2000-2004 and 2008-2011 Kobe had great teams (that's 9 years) and he won 5 titles. From 2011-2018, and in 2020 LBJ had great teams (will be 9 years) and LBJ presently only has 3 titles. It says a lot.

    I agree that AI and Barkley are great players and so titles aren't the only factor, but when you're distinguishing among the best ever, it makes a big difference, because most great players can put up insane numbers if everything revolves around them, but that doesn't lead to winning so they don't do that. Harden is actually a good example. He's nowhere near the player that his numbers suggest he is and he will never in a million years win a title playing like that. If he played the right way, he'd average more like 23 and 5...he'd probably win a lot more, but then the numbers wouldn't be great. I believe the same exact applies to LBJ.
    The reason it did not lead to the level of winning as Kobe is because Kobe played with a Prime Shaq that teams had no answer for, a guy that the league changed rules for. This takes a lot of pressure of you not to mention Lakers is a much better franchise. Meaning Kobe was in a better situation.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Wow that struck a nerve lol. We were actually tied for 3rd and then he came back (and we were still in it when he did come back) and played just as bad with him back as we did with him out so what does that tell you lol. The ship went down with LBJ at the helm, like it or not that is what happened. It showed a horrible ability to lead. That team makes the playoffs with Kobe, easily...easily! No question about it.
    Dude, you love to ignore anything that doesnít support your claim.

    They were 3rd with him an 9th when he came back. The kids gave up after there names were in trade rumors. Your a bigger fool than I thought if you think that team does better with Kobe. He was no leader of rookies. He dogged his teammates. Your eye test sucks kid. There is not a single stat that tells you Kobe would of done better. And there are mountains of statistics the show Lebron gets you more wins than Kobe. Youíve proven to be the biggest idiot in here. You are as biased as humanly possible and you ignore every statistic that proves you wrong and have zero statistical evidence to support an argument. Your basically 9 years old son.

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