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  1. #1561
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    He just traded the Red Sox best player on a team that was a year removed from winning the WS and all the talk was about how he wanted to rebuild this team. What does that suggest to you? Does that sound he would keep around a guy like deGrom? They placed 3rd last year with an idiot for a manager and a bullpen that couldn't get anyone out. Things that were fixable. This team wasn't far away where you blow it up. Whatever way you want to look at it, it should have been about acquiring talent to win. It still should be. Their window is there.

    Are they hurt by adding Cano's salary in a bad move and limited to ownership that won't go over the luxury tax? Sure but its not like years under Sandy where they didn't spend. He's convinced the Wilpons to add payroll and doing it where they have a solid lineup, hopefully a much improved bullpen, and a good team.

    That and a dollar fifty will buy you a newspaper. At the end of the day, its about results not about the farm system you build. The latter doesn't always translate to winning games. We'll see what both guys do in their tenures.
    Well the Mets just got worse this off season, and only a fool would spend money on day old news.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  2. #1562
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    I mean rebuilds only work if the players you get pan out. So many rebuilds have failed because of the players gotten in return
    How did Verdugo perform last year?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Well the Mets just got worse this off season, and only a fool would spend money on day old news.
    How did the Mets get worse this off season ?

  4. #1564
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The Red Sox can't afford the luxury tax penalty?
    Do they just want to throw money away, like you do for day old news.

    The Red Sox got younger.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  5. #1565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Do they just want to throw money away, like you do for day old news.

    The Red Sox got younger.
    Its not throwing money away on a former MVP who is 27 years old.

    Great. Let's see what that does for them. Let's see if Jeter Downs and Alex Verdugo are half the players Mookie is. I like a good farm system as much as the next guy. If it doesn't equate to winning, its just lipstick on a pig.
    Last edited by metswon69; 02-13-2020 at 11:24 PM.

  6. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Well the Mets just got worse this off season, and only a fool would spend money on day old news.
    I don't know if the Mets got worse. Wheeler is a good pitcher but he's overrated imo. Certainly, I think the combination of Porcello, Wacha and Betances can be just as good as Wheeler in terms of overall value. I expect Wheeler to be a 3 WAR pitcher in 2020. Certainly think those 3 guys can give you that.

    Not to mention if they have a semi healthy Cespedes and a healthy Lowrie, that goes a long way into making this team better.
    Last edited by metswon69; 02-13-2020 at 11:40 PM.

  7. #1567
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    NY Mets offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Well the Mets just got worse this off season, and only a fool would spend money on day old news.
    Lol the Mets got worse?

    Check the projections. Thatís unlikely.

  8. #1568
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  9. #1569
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Lol the Mets got worse?

    Check the projections. Thatís unlikely.
    Agreed. It's not just the team projections either. The individual projections for Wacha, Porcello, and Betances add out to 3.2 fWAR. Wheeler's same projections (from Steamers, Depth Charts, etc) have him at 3.3 fWAR in 2020. Wheeler is a nice piece but he doesn't move the needle that much where his loss can't be adequately replaced by adding value elsewhere.

  10. #1570
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    Wheeler on contract talks with the Mets:

    https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/stat...82240715882499

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  11. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Its not throwing money away on a former MVP who is 27 years old.

    Great. Let's see what that does for them. Let's see if Jeter Downs and Alex Verdugo are half the players Mookie is. I like a good farm system as much as the next guy. If it doesn't equate to winning, its just lipstick on a pig.
    Verdugo & Downs will have a higher fWAR over their 1st six-seven years than Betts will have over this one year with the Dodgers. Because that is what Bloom did. He traded 1 year of Betts for 13 years of Verdugo and Downs.

    Boston wasnít going to win this year, and they werenít going to resign Betts.

    Atlanta had a good farm system and look poised to win another NL Crown.

    The Mets had a good farm system and traded some of it to place 3rd last year and become paper champions this off season according to projections. Talk about lipstick on a pig.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Agreed. It's not just the team projections either. The individual projections for Wacha, Porcello, and Betances add out to 3.2 fWAR. Wheeler's same projections (from Steamers, Depth Charts, etc) have him at 3.3 fWAR in 2020. Wheeler is a nice piece but he doesn't move the needle that much where his loss can't be adequately replaced by adding value elsewhere.
    Steamer has them at an fWAR 2.5 and Wheeler at 3.1.

    They have only 4 positional players above 2 fWAR. Amed, Pete, McNeil and Conforto. So half of the team will be below average according to Steamer.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Wheeler on contract talks with the Mets:

    https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/stat...82240715882499

  14. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Steamer has them at an fWAR 2.5 and Wheeler at 3.1.

    They have only 4 positional players above 2 fWAR. Amed, Pete, McNeil and Conforto. So half of the team will be below average according to Steamer.
    Porcello 1.9, Wacha 0.4, Betances 0.9. Wheeler 3.3. My math was wrong. Its essentially a wash. Even if we use those numbers you posted, its a .5 WAR difference.

    Their depth is better this year with guys like Cespedes, Lowrie, Smith on the bench for hopefully a full season. There are certainly scenarios where this team is worse but I dont think they will be. I expect their depth and their bullpen to lead to a better record in 2020.

  15. #1575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Verdugo & Downs will have a higher fWAR over their 1st six-seven years than Betts will have over this one year with the Dodgers. Because that is what Bloom did. He traded 1 year of Betts for 13 years of Verdugo and Downs.

    Boston wasnít going to win this year, and they werenít going to resign Betts.

    Atlanta had a good farm system and look poised to win another NL Crown.

    The Mets had a good farm system and traded some of it to place 3rd last year and become paper champions this off season according to projections. Talk about lipstick on a pig.
    If the Dodgers win the WS, they'll take it. Not to mention if Mookie stays with the Dodgers in 2021, he'll put up a higher WAR in that first season after FA than Verdugo/Downs will put up in the next 3 years. Again the end game is not about who has the best farm system. Its about winning.

    The Dodgers want to win a WS. The Mets want to a WS. The Mets don't appropriate their assets well enough and have cheap owners who won't acquire the best talent so unfortunately their attempt at winning isn't as impressive as the Dodgers but the goal for the Mets is to win the WS in 2020.

    Look, this is where you and I disagree. You're set on this team not making the playoffs. I think this team can win this division, agree with the projections, and make a real run at the WS.
    Last edited by metswon69; 02-14-2020 at 01:18 PM.

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