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  1. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Actually........ I don't know if we see Groshans, SWR, Manoah, Kloff, Kirk or Moreno by 2021. Timeline on most of those guys is likely closer to end of 2022. Other than Pearson, they don't have much other than relievers graduating any time soon. (...unless you still count Kay, Zeuch and Luciano.) They have a lot of guys with the potential to be very good bullpen arms, but not much in the way of SP's or position players. Most of their talent now was still in A ball last year......because they graduated everyone else last year..lol
    I think Manoah, SWR and Kirk all have the best shot at being promoted to the show in 2021.

    I expect Manoah to start in Dunedin this year. The only reason he pitched in so few games after being drafted is because he hadn’t really had a break since the 2017 off-season as he played summer ball in 2018. He could very well pull a Pearson and jump from A+ to AAA this year alone.

    SWR is really just a question of durability. He already proved he can handle A+ at 18 years old but needs to go longer than 5 innings. He has the frame for it though.

    Kirk should be starting in AA this year. With his bat I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished 2020 in Buffalo.

    Groshans is a wildcard really. I admit at the time of writing the post I thought he was in Dunedin last year. 2021 shouldn’t be out of the question but much more unlikely than it is likely. I don’t know why I put Moreno on the list lol.

    You’re right about the relievers. I was alluding to using some of the kids we’ve already seen out of the BP.

  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I think Manoah, SWR and Kirk all have the best shot at being promoted to the show in 2021.

    I expect Manoah to start in Dunedin this year. The only reason he pitched in so few games after being drafted is because he hadn’t really had a break since the 2017 off-season as he played summer ball in 2018. He could very well pull a Pearson and jump from A+ to AAA this year alone.

    SWR is really just a question of durability. He already proved he can handle A+ at 18 years old but needs to go longer than 5 innings. He has the frame for it though.

    Kirk should be starting in AA this year. With his bat I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished 2020 in Buffalo.

    Groshans is a wildcard really. I admit at the time of writing the post I thought he was in Dunedin last year. 2021 shouldn’t be out of the question but much more unlikely than it is likely. I don’t know why I put Moreno on the list lol.

    You’re right about the relievers. I was alluding to using some of the kids we’ve already seen out of the BP.
    In many of the Fantasy baseball circles Orelvis Martinez is projected to be the top 5 prospect 2022. People are impressed with his ability to limit strikeouts. He may be moving in to top 50 next year.

  3. #1113
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    I don’t buy the guys won’t sign here but when you think of AAs teams anyone good that was on them were traded for so maybe there’s something to it.

    Over/under Ross and Shap sign a pitcher before New Years?
    I can 100% believe it. Not because of market, just the current prospects of winning. It's frustrating taken in the entirety but if you boil it down to a bunch of individual players looking at where they will enjoy the next stage of their careers the teams that have bottomed out would have to be an "only if I have no other options" directive to the players agent. Sure would for me.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    brought all this up in the context of players not wanting to sign here. Why do you think Atkins has had a difficult time signing pitchers this off-season?
    How attractive would the worst teams in baseball be if you were looking at relocating for the next 4 years?

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Troll? Me? I just obliterate you with knowledge and facts then you go into hiding for a few days. You gonna respond to the Bichette post or wait a week or two before bringing it up as a talking point like you always do?
    There is nothing to respond to. The idea that brichette coveted our development system because of shapiro when he was a few months into the job is asinine. It had everything to do with the reputation AA built for having a premier development program.
    Know when to take a loss dude.

    Your a troll because you’ve been looking for a fight all offseason. You’re one of the only people that have 100% faith in this FO. We have given our reasons for not trusting them, you disagree. That’s fine - you don’t have to try to pick a fight with everyone who disagrees with you.. which is almost everybody.

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Actually........ I don't know if we see Groshans, SWR, Manoah, Kloff, Kirk or Moreno by 2021. Timeline on most of those guys is likely closer to end of 2022. Other than Pearson, they don't have much other than relievers graduating any time soon. (...unless you still count Kay, Zeuch and Luciano.) They have a lot of guys with the potential to be very good bullpen arms, but not much in the way of SP's or position players. Most of their talent now was still in A ball last year......because they graduated everyone else last year..lol
    And timeline for them to be impact players (hopefully at least 2, maybe 3 of them pan out) is 2024-25.

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    How attractive would the worst teams in baseball be if you were looking at relocating for the next 4 years?

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Precisely but Atkins comes across like this is news. Maybe he miss calculated the market? or maybe he should have targeted 1 or 2 pitchers early on in the signing period instead of trying to cover the whole market.

    Atkins

    “We'll just continue what we've been doing to understand every opportunity across the entire market,” Atkins said. “The top of it, the middle of it and beyond that. So there's not a free agent pitcher that we haven't touched base with.

    “We have been aggressively trying to understand every opportunity. We'll continue to do that and there remains to be opportunities out there.”

  8. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Precisely but Atkins comes across like this is news. Maybe he miss calculated the market? or maybe he should have targeted 1 or 2 pitchers early on in the signing period instead of trying to cover the whole market.

    Atkins

    “We'll just continue what we've been doing to understand every opportunity across the entire market,” Atkins said. “The top of it, the middle of it and beyond that. So there's not a free agent pitcher that we haven't touched base with.

    “We have been aggressively trying to understand every opportunity. We'll continue to do that and there remains to be opportunities out there.”
    Why is he having so much trouble understanding? What happens once he understands an opportunity?

  9. #1119
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    958
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Manoah, SWR, Groshans, Kirk, Kloff, Moreno. 2 catchers, 3 arms and a SS/3B who should all be up by 2021 except for Kloff really. That's just for now too. It still remains to be seen if Warmoth can bounce back or if Kendall Williams has a good first full season just to name a few of the outliers. Then there's guys like Kay, Zeuch, Wags, Thornton, Tellez, Teoscar, Jansen/McGuire who could all possibly be used as trade bait or possible bullpen options.
    You assume they will all work out and reach their maximum potential. You assume they will not have any set backs in their development. You assume they will all stay healthy. You assume a couple won't be dealt to bring in an impact player. You assume that they will immediately step in an be an impact player in the League. I also think you are over valuing players like Tellez. They will probably not fetch much. If nobody wanted Smoak last year, they definitely won't pay a lot for Tellez. The players other GMs will want are those that you expect to be in the everyday lineup. Sorry, but not all of them will be Jays. Not all will pan out as you hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    They don't need to sign 15 quality players lol. As for something needing to be left on the farm for the future, yeah they'll need prospects but look at them right now. We have a surplus of arms and catchers in the farm. Trades can be made (as long as they're the right prospects) and we could feel no effects on either of those positions. Do you think it'd be safe to say that one of Kay, Zeuch, Wags or Thornton could be used as a reliever in 2020 and beyond? I think so. Maybe even 2.
    I hope one of the C prospect scrubs that Shatkins got us makes it to the pen. But really, if Pearson arrives and delivers as hoped, that's one pitcher in the rotation. They need another 4. They will also need a sixth and probably seventh starter somewhere in the organization to protect against injuries. And even if you move Thornton to the BP, they will still need a closer, two set up men, and I don't know what (depending on how baseball goes with the three hitter rule).

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    If you look beyond your favourite thing to discuss (the year 2017) you'll see that the Jays are actually set up exceptionally well for the future. After 2020 their biggest yearly commitment will be off the books (Tulo) and then they'll have even more money to spend. I think it was FLeays who said the plan should be to add some reliable arms and a bat or two then then play out 2020 and see where we are going into 2021. A plan that I agree with for the most part. All these young arms could very well fill out a couple spots in the bullpen or a spot or two in the rotation.
    I bring it up because instead of an arguable top 10 system, they could have a number one or two system. But Shatkins wasted the opportunity. And sure, they Jays will have lots of money to spend, but will the right players be willing to take it to come to Canada. Recent history suggests otherwise. So the impact players will have to come from somewhere, which means trading some those elite prospects you mentioned above. If only we had more elite prospects in the system...oh...but 2017 is a mute talking point to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    With AA there was always a rush to make things happens because he could never draft young talent. All the talent he acquired and the players he traded for were already in their prime or slowly exiting it. Reyes, Beuhrle, Tulo, JD, Martin, Estrada etc. Not a single one of those players were below the age of 30 when they were acquired. This team isn't like that. This team is one that's going to continue to get better through internal growth every year. The window on this core isn't closing in fact it hasn't even been opened yet.
    I have never said the team wasn't going to get better. And so what if AA drafted poorly. He still convinced other GMs that his prospects were the best in baseball and got quality players in return. And the core timeline is closing because the first group to graduate to the majors are free agents in four to five years. The next wave is probably two years away. And I hate to break it to you, they will have a learning curve too. So that puts them as contenders when...2023? So yeah, if they want to contend sooner, definitely...10 to 15 players will be needed.

  10. #1120
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    Aug 2006
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    958
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Why is he having so much trouble understanding? What happens once he understands an opportunity?
    He fails to sign it or trade for it...but then gives us a presser with more ridiculous statements.

  11. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    There is nothing to respond to. The idea that brichette coveted our development system because of shapiro when he was a few months into the job is asinine. It had everything to do with the reputation AA built for having a premier development program.
    Know when to take a loss dude.

    Your a troll because you’ve been looking for a fight all offseason. You’re one of the only people that have 100% faith in this FO. We have given our reasons for not trusting them, you disagree. That’s fine - you don’t have to try to pick a fight with everyone who disagrees with you.. which is almost everybody.
    I don't think it's asinine at all. In fact, I think there's a post where I prove it to be true! Before you avoid reading said post there's also this. It wasn't just a few months. Shapiro took over at the end of October and the draft was that following June. He had plenty of time to hire staff in between then. It's even mentioned in the article just how he did.

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...4#post33286214

    I know it's a little hard on the eyes because of the reality and all. It's probably why you refuse to respond to it.

    All you have to do is take a quick look at the post and admit you're wrong. After that I'll never bring it up. I'm only being like this to you because you have a tendency to be reaaaaaaally condescending when you have no idea what you're talking about most of the time. You also have a ridiculously hard time admitting you're wrong about things which is really funny. I am a troll, but you asked for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  12. #1122
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    https://www.tsn.ca/report-toronto-bl...shaw-1.1410546

    Jays are in on Travis Shaw. I'm a fan of picking him up.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  13. #1123
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    Oct 2018
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    Nats re-sign Strasburg


    7 years $245MM

  14. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Why is he having so much trouble understanding? What happens once he understands an opportunity?
    AJ Cole? lol

    Sick of both of them. Maybe Shapiro fires Atkins to save his ***.

  15. #1125
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Nats re-sign Strasburg


    7 years $245MM
    Wow. Didn’t see that dollar value coming. Good for him. Redon will not be retained now I believe.

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