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  1. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Unfortunately - Iíve been right about what we will get with Shapiro and Atkins.

    Moving forward - They will build up the farm like every new GM, but be replaced when they prove they cannot build a contender in the ALE even if they understood what it truly takes.

    If they arenít trying for Coke, then they have no idea what type of talent you need on your roster to be a perennial contender.
    Stros couldnít even do it this year with 3 coles on their roster.
    If you're right about events that haven't even happened then so be it.

    You do realize the likelihood of a team in the Jays position acquiring the best free agent pitcher in baseball is ridiculously low right? I mean yeah, they did it way back when with Clemens. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Cole was a Jay. I wouldn't be surprised if they've talked to him but convincing a player of that calibre to sign here when basically every other team in the league wants him is going to be tough.

    Every other GM technically does build up a farm. They don't build it up to the level that Atkins has though.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #947
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    Aug 2006
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    958
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    If you're right about events that haven't even happened then so be it.

    You do realize the likelihood of a team in the Jays position acquiring the best free agent pitcher in baseball is ridiculously low right? I mean yeah, they did it way back when with Clemens. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Cole was a Jay. I wouldn't be surprised if they've talked to him but convincing a player of that calibre to sign here when basically every other team in the league wants him is going to be tough.

    Every other GM technically does build up a farm. They don't build it up to the level that Atkins has though.
    This does fall on the front office. They have done a terrible job building a winning culture in Toronto. They have to prove that they are willing to do what it takes to build a winner, and Shatkins has not done that.

  3. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    Twins re-sign Pineda for 2-20. I would of loved to see the Jays do that. Another arm off the board.
    I'm okay with this. Slowly but surely all the arms you expect Atkins to be targeting are falling off the board. Could be that he's missing out or it could be that he's paying more attention to better arms. That 100 million dollar comment really got my attention. He's never been that specific before.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    This does fall on the front office. They have done a terrible job building a winning culture in Toronto. They have to prove that they are willing to do what it takes to build a winner, and Shatkins has not done that.
    If only they could've made some of those baseball moves eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  5. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    This does fall on the front office. They have done a terrible job building a winning culture in Toronto. They have to prove that they are willing to do what it takes to build a winner, and Shatkins has not done that.
    Yep. Other players notice - the entire league notices, they all talk and see how players like JD, Stroman ...etc were treated. Like trash. Word gets around real quick. Working hard to create a losing culture. Bravo Atkins. and they wonder why players don't want to sign here. I really hope I'm wrong but you know....

  6. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Yep. Other players notice - the entire league notices, they all talk and see how players like JD, Stroman ...etc were treated. Like trash. Word gets around real quick. Working hard to create a losing culture. Bravo Atkins. and they wonder why players don't want to sign here. I really hope I'm wrong but you know....
    You bring up two guys that are known to be *******s. Lol.

  7. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    You bring up two guys that are known to be *******s. Lol.
    right.

    2019

    JD 6.1 bWAR (career 44.8)
    Stro show 4.1 bWAR (14.6)

    I'll talk the so called a holes any day.

  8. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    right.

    2019

    JD 6.1 bWAR (career 44.8)
    Stro show 4.1 bWAR (14.6)

    I'll talk the so called a holes any day.
    Weíre not talking about production.

    And players also talk about how the Jays were the first to increase minor league play. Nobody cares how they treated two of the biggest jerks in the game.

  9. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Weíre not talking about production.

    And players also talk about how the Jays were the first to increase minor league play. Nobody cares how they treated two of the biggest jerks in the game.
    I donít know man. Stats have loads of personality...

  10. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Yep. Other players notice - the entire league notices, they all talk and see how players like JD, Stroman ...etc were treated. Like trash. Word gets around real quick. Working hard to create a losing culture. Bravo Atkins. and they wonder why players don't want to sign here. I really hope I'm wrong but you know....
    You should see what all the young players have to say about this FO though. Did you know that the Blue Jays were at the top of Boís list based on their player development?He rejected 4 different offers in order so he could be drafted by the Jays. Players sure do notice a great system when they see one. Itís funny that player development was the #1 reason that Bo signed here because according to Chong, Bo didnít need any development lol.

    I have no issue with how Atkins is building a solid foundation here. Gibby was special because heís one of the only managers who was capable of getting such great production from a team full of hot heads. Itís no surprise the majority of those hot heads were all gone within a year of Gibbyís dismissal.
    Last edited by R. Johnson#3; 12-06-2019 at 09:34 AM.

  11. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    lol Coke
    Lmfao!

    Fixed. Thanks. Still would have been relevant in the 80ís though.

  12. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    If you're right about events that haven't even happened then so be it.

    You do realize the likelihood of a team in the Jays position acquiring the best free agent pitcher in baseball is ridiculously low right? I mean yeah, they did it way back when with Clemens. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Cole was a Jay. I wouldn't be surprised if they've talked to him but convincing a player of that calibre to sign here when basically every other team in the league wants him is going to be tough.

    Every other GM technically does build up a farm. They don't build it up to the level that Atkins has though.
    Most GMís can build a farm around 10th-ish if they donít trade anything from it for 5 years and their sole focus is building said farm. Nothing crazy there.

    And when I think of Cole in Toronto I think of the grinkie to the diamond backs deal. And even better - when those types of players donít right the ship they usually still have trade value for the 2nd round of rebuilding that we all know is likely.

  13. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    You should see what all the young players have to say about this FO though. Did you know that the Blue Jays were at the top of Boís list based on their player development?He rejected 4 different offers in order so he could be drafted by the Jays. Players sure do notice a great system when they see one. Itís funny that player development was the #1 reason that Bo signed here because according to Chong, Bo didnít need any development lol..
    You realize that was all AA right?
    He built that reputation for this team by himself. Certainly wasnít viewed that way when Jp was here.

    And Bo definitely needed to develop, but he didnít need to change anything about what he was already doing. He just needed to mature, he was already on the path to where he is.
    Unless you can point to an adjustment he made under this development staff...

  14. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Most GMís can build a farm around 10th-ish if they donít trade anything from it for 5 years and their sole focus is building said farm. Nothing crazy there.

    And when I think of Cole in Toronto I think of the grinkie to the diamond backs deal. And even better - when those types of players donít right the ship they usually still have trade value for the 2nd round of rebuilding that we all know is likely.
    Well usually when you pluck the #1 and #8 prospects in all of baseball from a farm it experiences quite the drop off. When AA gutted the farm in 2015 it went from being in the teens to the twenties. Atkinsí farm remains in the top 10 even with massive departures. So yeah, itís a testament to his ability to build a farm. Especially when you couple that with the fact that heís had no top draft picks unlike the Astros who had multiple 1st overall picks on their farm.

    Youíve seen what happened to the D-Backs after that massive flinch, right? That was a 6 year 205 million dollar deal. Cole is supposedly about to be offered 7 years and 250 mil from the Yanks. I want Coke but if thatís what the Yanks are offering him then I can only imagine the Jays need to add at least 20 mil to that number to even get his attention.

  15. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    You realize that was all AA right?
    He built that reputation for this team by himself. Certainly wasnít viewed that way when Jp was here.

    And Bo definitely needed to develop, but he didnít need to change anything about what he was already doing. He just needed to mature, he was already on the path to where he is.
    Unless you can point to an adjustment he made under this development staff...
    If it was all AA then how come he never developed any top level talent? Where are all the great position players he drafted? Why did he trade away the best prospect he drafted? Ben Cherington was hired by this current regime. In 7 years of AA we got Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna that were brought through his system. In 4 years of Atkins we have Gurriel, Bo, Biggio and soon to be Pearson. This doesnít even include Vladdy.

    So Bo needed to develop but he didnít need to change anything about what he was already doing.....Seriously?

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