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  1. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    That's another way of looking at it. I see Jansen/McGuire more intriguing to teams that are either about to tear it down or are in the early stages of a rebuild like us. Neither of them will impact a team right away where as Grandal would be the opposite. Grandal really is the cherry on top of the White Sox offence now that Abreu accepted the QO. If they nab a starter or two, they're a playoff team. I too don't really believe they were ever in on Grandal. I wanted to but in all reality it was probably just Atkins doing his due diligence.

    Don't get me wrong though, I'd like to see one of Jansen/McGuire dealt but I won't be holding my breath.
    Yeah your probably right about contenders wanting more of a sure thing. I would say if this season starts and both are doing well come the deadline their value could be up and more intriguing to more teams.

  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    Yeah your probably right about contenders wanting more of a sure thing. I would say if this season starts and both are doing well come the deadline their value could be up and more intriguing to more teams.
    That's a possibility. Or who knows, maybe Cherrington likes one of them?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    If you don't get Grandal (...or some other everyday all-star type catcher now that he is off the board) then you don't trade Jansen or McGuire. You let them compete for reps or simply platoon them and take the stellar D behind the dish for 1M combined. If one starts to struggle then you let the other play "everyday".

    They still have a surplus at catcher in the system without Grandal, he just would have made it easier to trade the guys currently in the majors. Moreno, Kirk and even Riley Adams are all still pretty solid to decent catching specs at various levels of their minor league journeys that all become expendable if they go with Jansen and McGuire moving forward.

    I would rather wait until next off season to trade one of those catchers. I think Kirk is going to rise quickly the way he barrels the baseball. How many catchers out there have a 70 grade on their hit tool? (Which is the grade BA just gave him, not the grade that milb had/currently has for him) He likely starts next year in AA. If everything goes well he could be in AAA by the end of next year and ready to replace one of Jansen or McGuire.
    I think you unload McGuire if some team is being fooled by his small sample size with the bat.

    I would swap him for pretty much any player on the top 100 specs list.

  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I think you unload McGuire if some team is being fooled by his small sample size with the bat.

    I would swap him for pretty much any player on the top 100 specs list.
    McGuireís MO has always been his defence. Itís what made him a 1st round pick. I donít think teams are holding out hope for him to hit .290. Jansenís value is much higher at the moment and honestly, I think this will be the peak for him. I donít have much faith in his bat despite the torrid 2018 season he had. Jansen is an AA pick and AA never drafted good position players.

    I wouldnít want to deal for a prospect unless it was a major league ready outfielder coming back. I think it was Lance who pointed out the Braves need catching. Maybe Jansen + mid level prospect for one of the Braves young OFers. I think the dream of moving Giles to the Braves can be put to rest considering AA signed Smith, re-signed Martin and still has Shane Greene under 1 more year of arb. Yes Greene shat the bed after the trade but I imagine AA gives him another go.

  5. #665
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    Yeah the only way they would've traded Jansen is of they signed Grandal. Pretty much no chance they head into the season with McGuire as the primary catcher.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Yeah the only way they would've traded Jansen is of they signed Grandal. Pretty much no chance they head into the season with McGuire as the primary catcher.
    I donít think itís the only way but it definitely makes it much more unlikely for Atkins to move one of our catchers now that Grandal is off the board. Having Maile as the backup wouldnít be ideal if we were trying to make the playoffs but I can live with it for one more year. Actually I just remembered Atkins said he wants to deal one of them for a pitcher so a trade for an OFer is highly unlikely.

  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Yeah the only way they would've traded Jansen is of they signed Grandal. Pretty much no chance they head into the season with McGuire as the primary catcher.
    I agree it would be foolish.

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I agree it would be foolish.
    Yes.

    I haven't seen this mentioned....young catchers are a huge risk most never reach their potential so any trading partner would want + in return...to hedge against that risk. I just don't see the value of making such a deal unless there was a glaring whole on both sides - a need for need type of deal.

  9. #669
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    So while we have added a 5th starter, the White Sox have locked up the top C, the top 1B and are currently the top bidders for Wheeler too! If they do get Wheeler that good off season turns into one heck of a great off season.

    They are having the off season we all hoped the Jays would have. Granted one was a re-sign, but still. They have the money, but I don't have high hopes anymore. If they were going to blow anyone away, it would have happened by now.

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    So while we have added a 5th starter, the White Sox have locked up the top C, the top 1B and are currently the top bidders for Wheeler too! If they do get Wheeler that good off season turns into one heck of a great off season.

    They are having the off season we all hoped the Jays would have. Granted one was a re-sign, but still. They have the money, but I don't have high hopes anymore. If they were going to blow anyone away, it would have happened by now.
    My thinking as well.

    Brace yourself.
    A giant rant about how this front office has failed us all, cut budget but is too afraid to use the room, and wasted the cheap years of this core is coming at the end of the offseason from yours truly lol.

    Iím sure I will get hated on for it, because facts hurt feelings around here.

  11. #671
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    Like Iím holding out hope... but itís hard to see them pulling a rabbit out of their hats.
    Limited assets to trade other than Giles, And they obviously donít want to give up the pick if we are to believe ordozzi.

    The only players that would seem to be the type of pieces that can really impact this team in the future all seem to cost a pick.

  12. #672
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    I would honestly say that weíre the White Sox of last year. Weíre about a year behind them give or take. They tried hard for big names last year and struck out.

    But itís super early still for baseball off season.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I would honestly say that weíre the White Sox of last year. Weíre about a year behind them give or take. They tried hard for big names last year and struck out.

    But itís super early still for baseball off season.
    Yeah the White Soxís have been below .500 for 8 years in a row now and are basically in year 4 of their rebuild. I love the Grandal move but this team still needs to add a lot more, they had 72 wins playing in the worst division in baseball.
    I like how their set up mind you but like you said they are at least a year ahead maybe two years ahead and not where they should be by now.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    So while we have added a 5th starter, the White Sox have locked up the top C, the top 1B and are currently the top bidders for Wheeler too! If they do get Wheeler that good off season turns into one heck of a great off season.

    They are having the off season we all hoped the Jays would have. Granted one was a re-sign, but still. They have the money, but I don't have high hopes anymore. If they were going to blow anyone away, it would have happened by now.
    It's early and I hold out hope that things get rolling during the winter meetings two weeks from now. I think Shatkins has brought many good prospects into the organization. I still think they failed miserably cashing in on the MLB assets by starting the rebuild too late. So I don't think there are enough prospects to build a WS contender (making the playoffs is just not good enough). They needed more assets to trade in order to bring it the team forward. I don't think there are enough prospect assets to build a winner through trades so signing key free agents is the direction they should take. Really, subtract one or some of Vlad, Bo, Biggio, or Pearson and really extent that to LGJr and Groshans, will the rebuild work? Because to get pieces in trades, I think one or two of those will have to be dealt to get an ace or other impact player. If they hide behind the excuse of looking for value on free agents, then I think this rebuild will fail. I just remember the 90s when Delgado, Green, Carpenter, Halladay, and Escobar all came up. The pieces were there, but ownership and management refused to go the extra mile. I fear the Jays could head in that direction again.

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I would honestly say that weíre the White Sox of last year. Weíre about a year behind them give or take. They tried hard for big names last year and struck out.

    But itís super early still for baseball off season.
    I'd say we're 2 year behind them because the ChiSox at least have the young pitching needed to turn things around there... if they pan out.

    That's I think another year of being terrible will do good in the long run. We don't have any assets and a middling farm system.


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