The Offseason Lounge

[Chaotic98]

Price you pay to win. Rather have ships than future flexibility and nothing to show for it.

The Phillies and Angels have a lot to show for their bad deals, sub .500 teams that aren't bad enough to properly rebuild and not good enough to make the playoffs.

[ChongInc.]

It's not really directed at anyone, but yes, I've seen you make the case a few times.

That atkins pays too much in arbitration?

Sry, you’re confusing me with someone else. I don’t even pay attention to arb numbers. If they’re tendered, they’ll be back next season. That’s where I stop paying attention.

[wamco]

I’m fine with Atkins not budging off 4/78 on dj.

Now we just need springer to take our money

[Kenny Powders]

That atkins pays too much in arbitration?

Sry, you’re confusing me with someone else. I don’t even pay attention to arb numbers. If they’re tendered, they’ll be back next season. That’s where I stop paying attention.

Yeah I don't think we are in the same wavelength, probably has to do with me having a few too many drinks last night.

I've seen it mentioned on here, more then once that Atkins needs to act soon because our young players are going to hit Arb soon and will be free agents in like 4.5 years so they will start costing money. While I can see the merits in that argument it just seems silly to me, I've never heard that angle until the last few years

[mike_noodles]

The Phillies and Angels have a lot to show for their bad deals, sub .500 teams that aren't bad enough to properly rebuild and not good enough to make the playoffs.

Neither of those teams had the base core that we have. The Angels are just a terribly run organization and should be embarrassed about the teams they have put around Mike Trout.

[hanton]

Bauer makes so much sense now, that video is so telling. Get it done.

[T.O. Fan]

I’m fine with Atkins not budging off 4/78 on dj.

Now we just need springer to take our money

Agreed.

[bartron_44]

Yeah I don't think we are in the same wavelength, probably has to do with me having a few too many drinks last night.

I've seen it mentioned on here, more then once that Atkins needs to act soon because our young players are going to hit Arb soon and will be free agents in like 4.5 years so they will start costing money. While I can see the merits in that argument it just seems silly to me, I've never heard that angle until the last few years

The argument makes sense because of how many potential high earners they hope to have. If guys like Vlad, Bo, Biggio and Pearson all progress as hoped, those 4 could go from making a combined 2 million to a combined 60+ million. So while they are cheap now , it makes sense to surround them with all star talent while you can still afford it.

[ChongInc.]

Yeah I don't think we are in the same wavelength, probably has to do with me having a few too many drinks last night.

I've seen it mentioned on here, more then once that Atkins needs to act soon because our young players are going to hit Arb soon and will be free agents in like 4.5 years so they will start costing money. While I can see the merits in that argument it just seems silly to me, I've never heard that angle until the last few years

Ahhh ok I see.

The reason that team-building theory has become popular is because it has been working. Cubs, astros, hell - even the dodgers.
Building a nice wave of cheap talent and adding the big name FA to supplement them is the new way since the tax threshold was introduced.

If vlad/no/biggio/LGjr are taking up 80 mil then we have officially entered “sustain” mode, rather than aggressively trying to improve the team. Once you’re at that point you need to trade huge packages for cheap players with control. A quick look at the Cubs or astros now will give you a glimpse of the challenges of sustaining success while your top players start cashing in.

[ChongInc.]

I’m actually surprised the theory is beyond you. Seems pretty basic and you are an intelligent guy.

[bartron_44]

This year the only key guy in arb was Teoscar. .so their arb costs were like 5M.

In 2021 though the following guys hit arb:

Vladdy, Rowdy, Jansen, Borucki, Dolis

..and their arb costs are projected to be over 40M.

Then in 2022 they likely add 5 more:

Bo, Cavan, Pearson, Hatch, Kay

And the projected arb costs jump to over 80M.


So they can spend a lot more on 1-2 year deals then they can 3+ year deals. They have 80M in arb players projected in 2023, along with about 36M already committed to Ryu, Grichuk and LGJ.


Unless they trade a few of those young guys, I think they got room for 1 big splash and then a few more 1-2 year deals on pitchers.

I'm still hoping for either Bauer or Springer on a long term deal and then some guys veteran guys like Hand and Molina on 2 year deals.

[hanton]

This year the only key guy in arb was Teoscar. .so their arb costs were like 5M.

In 2021 though the following guys hit arb:

Vladdy, Rowdy, Jansen, Borucki, Dolis

..and their arb costs are projected to be over 40M.

Then in 2022 they likely add 5 more:

Bo, Cavan, Pearson, Hatch, Kay

And the projected arb costs jump to over 80M.


So they can spend a lot more on 1-2 year deals then they can 3+ year deals. They have 80M in arb players projected in 2023, along with about 36M already committed to Ryu, Grichuk and LGJ.


Unless they trade a few of those young guys, I think they got room for 1 big splash and then a few more 1-2 year deals on pitchers.

I'm still hoping for either Bauer or Springer on a long term deal and then some guys veteran guys like Hand and Molina on 2 year deals.

I think you meant 2022 and what arb year is the 40M for?

[bartron_44]

I think you meant 2022 and what arb year is the 40M for?

Oops, those were supposed to be 2022 and 2023, not 2021 and 2022..lol

40M in 2022
80M in 2023

However, that 80M in 2023 is spread over like 25 players. They won't all still be on the roster:

Vladdy- 3B/DH
Bo-SS
Biggio-2B
Teoscar-RF
Pearson-SP
Jansen-C
Tellez-1B
Dolis-RP
Romano-RP
Kay- SP/RP
Hatch- SP/RP
AJ Cole- RP
Stripling- RP
Borucki- RP
Thornton -SP/RP
Luciano- SP/RP
Yamaguchi- RP
Mayza-RP
Wags - RP
McGuire- C
J.Davis- CF
Y. Diaz- SP/RP
R.Urena-SS
T.White- 1B


But you could make a case for at least everyone down to Borucki ( aka the first 14) on that list being on the roster, and maybe even a few below that too. It may not be 80M, but unless they make a bunch of trades it is going to ne a big number compared to what those same players will make this season.

[hanton]

Oops, those were supposed to be 2022 and 2023, not 2021 and 2022..lol

40M in 2022
80M in 2023

However, that 80M in 2023 is spread over like 25 players. They won't all still be on the roster:

Vladdy- 3B/DH
Bo-SS
Biggio-2B
Teoscar-RF
Pearson-SP
Jansen-C
Tellez-1B
Dolis-RP
Romano-RP
Kay- SP/RP
Hatch- SP/RP
AJ Cole- RP
Stripling- RP
Borucki- RP
Thornton -SP/RP
Luciano- SP/RP
Yamaguchi- RP
Mayza-RP
Wags - RP
McGuire- C
J.Davis- CF
Y. Diaz- SP/RP
R.Urena-SS
T.White- 1B


But you could make a case for at least everyone down to Borucki ( aka the first 14) on that list being on the roster, and maybe even a few below that too. It may not be 80M, but unless they make a bunch of trades it is going to ne a big number compared to what those same players will make this season.

That sounds about right however if Teoscar is for real he will cash in 2022:arb2 and even bigger in 2023:arb3. It's the reason I brought up Castillo and his recently signed $4.2M.

2021 ARB
Teoscar
Stripling
Dolis
Borucki
Fisher
Jansen
Tellez
Thornton
Guerrero
Biggio