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  1. #4291
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Price you pay to win. Rather have ships than future flexibility and nothing to show for it.
    The Phillies and Angels have a lot to show for their bad deals, sub .500 teams that aren't bad enough to properly rebuild and not good enough to make the playoffs.

  2. #4292
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    12,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    It's not really directed at anyone, but yes, I've seen you make the case a few times.
    That atkins pays too much in arbitration?

    Sry, you’re confusing me with someone else. I don’t even pay attention to arb numbers. If they’re tendered, they’ll be back next season. That’s where I stop paying attention.

  3. #4293
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    6,442
    I’m fine with Atkins not budging off 4/78 on dj.

    Now we just need springer to take our money
    Beeston: "we should be able to support a $140-$150 million payroll and that's the direction that we're headed."
    1.27.11

  4. #4294
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Shore
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    11,696
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    That atkins pays too much in arbitration?

    Sry, you’re confusing me with someone else. I don’t even pay attention to arb numbers. If they’re tendered, they’ll be back next season. That’s where I stop paying attention.
    Yeah I don't think we are in the same wavelength, probably has to do with me having a few too many drinks last night.

    I've seen it mentioned on here, more then once that Atkins needs to act soon because our young players are going to hit Arb soon and will be free agents in like 4.5 years so they will start costing money. While I can see the merits in that argument it just seems silly to me, I've never heard that angle until the last few years

  5. #4295
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Ontario
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    14,263
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    The Phillies and Angels have a lot to show for their bad deals, sub .500 teams that aren't bad enough to properly rebuild and not good enough to make the playoffs.
    Neither of those teams had the base core that we have. The Angels are just a terribly run organization and should be embarrassed about the teams they have put around Mike Trout.

  6. #4296
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,549
    Bauer makes so much sense now, that video is so telling. Get it done.

  7. #4297
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    4,588
    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    I’m fine with Atkins not budging off 4/78 on dj.

    Now we just need springer to take our money
    Agreed.

  8. #4298
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Yeah I don't think we are in the same wavelength, probably has to do with me having a few too many drinks last night.

    I've seen it mentioned on here, more then once that Atkins needs to act soon because our young players are going to hit Arb soon and will be free agents in like 4.5 years so they will start costing money. While I can see the merits in that argument it just seems silly to me, I've never heard that angle until the last few years

    The argument makes sense because of how many potential high earners they hope to have. If guys like Vlad, Bo, Biggio and Pearson all progress as hoped, those 4 could go from making a combined 2 million to a combined 60+ million. So while they are cheap now , it makes sense to surround them with all star talent while you can still afford it.

  9. #4299
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    12,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Yeah I don't think we are in the same wavelength, probably has to do with me having a few too many drinks last night.

    I've seen it mentioned on here, more then once that Atkins needs to act soon because our young players are going to hit Arb soon and will be free agents in like 4.5 years so they will start costing money. While I can see the merits in that argument it just seems silly to me, I've never heard that angle until the last few years
    Ahhh ok I see.

    The reason that team-building theory has become popular is because it has been working. Cubs, astros, hell - even the dodgers.
    Building a nice wave of cheap talent and adding the big name FA to supplement them is the new way since the tax threshold was introduced.

    If vlad/no/biggio/LGjr are taking up 80 mil then we have officially entered “sustain” mode, rather than aggressively trying to improve the team. Once you’re at that point you need to trade huge packages for cheap players with control. A quick look at the Cubs or astros now will give you a glimpse of the challenges of sustaining success while your top players start cashing in.

  10. #4300
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    Feb 2009
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    12,300
    I’m actually surprised the theory is beyond you. Seems pretty basic and you are an intelligent guy.

  11. #4301
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    Jan 2009
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    7,314
    This year the only key guy in arb was Teoscar. .so their arb costs were like 5M.

    In 2021 though the following guys hit arb:

    Vladdy, Rowdy, Jansen, Borucki, Dolis

    ..and their arb costs are projected to be over 40M.

    Then in 2022 they likely add 5 more:

    Bo, Cavan, Pearson, Hatch, Kay

    And the projected arb costs jump to over 80M.


    So they can spend a lot more on 1-2 year deals then they can 3+ year deals. They have 80M in arb players projected in 2023, along with about 36M already committed to Ryu, Grichuk and LGJ.


    Unless they trade a few of those young guys, I think they got room for 1 big splash and then a few more 1-2 year deals on pitchers.

    I'm still hoping for either Bauer or Springer on a long term deal and then some guys veteran guys like Hand and Molina on 2 year deals.

  12. #4302
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,549
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    This year the only key guy in arb was Teoscar. .so their arb costs were like 5M.

    In 2021 though the following guys hit arb:

    Vladdy, Rowdy, Jansen, Borucki, Dolis

    ..and their arb costs are projected to be over 40M.

    Then in 2022 they likely add 5 more:

    Bo, Cavan, Pearson, Hatch, Kay

    And the projected arb costs jump to over 80M.


    So they can spend a lot more on 1-2 year deals then they can 3+ year deals. They have 80M in arb players projected in 2023, along with about 36M already committed to Ryu, Grichuk and LGJ.


    Unless they trade a few of those young guys, I think they got room for 1 big splash and then a few more 1-2 year deals on pitchers.

    I'm still hoping for either Bauer or Springer on a long term deal and then some guys veteran guys like Hand and Molina on 2 year deals.
    I think you meant 2022 and what arb year is the 40M for?

  13. #4303
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    Jan 2009
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    7,314
    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    I think you meant 2022 and what arb year is the 40M for?

    Oops, those were supposed to be 2022 and 2023, not 2021 and 2022..lol

    40M in 2022
    80M in 2023

    However, that 80M in 2023 is spread over like 25 players. They won't all still be on the roster:

    Vladdy- 3B/DH
    Bo-SS
    Biggio-2B
    Teoscar-RF
    Pearson-SP
    Jansen-C
    Tellez-1B
    Dolis-RP
    Romano-RP
    Kay- SP/RP
    Hatch- SP/RP
    AJ Cole- RP
    Stripling- RP
    Borucki- RP
    Thornton -SP/RP
    Luciano- SP/RP
    Yamaguchi- RP
    Mayza-RP
    Wags - RP
    McGuire- C
    J.Davis- CF
    Y. Diaz- SP/RP
    R.Urena-SS
    T.White- 1B


    But you could make a case for at least everyone down to Borucki ( aka the first 14) on that list being on the roster, and maybe even a few below that too. It may not be 80M, but unless they make a bunch of trades it is going to ne a big number compared to what those same players will make this season.

  14. #4304
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,549
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Oops, those were supposed to be 2022 and 2023, not 2021 and 2022..lol

    40M in 2022
    80M in 2023

    However, that 80M in 2023 is spread over like 25 players. They won't all still be on the roster:

    Vladdy- 3B/DH
    Bo-SS
    Biggio-2B
    Teoscar-RF
    Pearson-SP
    Jansen-C
    Tellez-1B
    Dolis-RP
    Romano-RP
    Kay- SP/RP
    Hatch- SP/RP
    AJ Cole- RP
    Stripling- RP
    Borucki- RP
    Thornton -SP/RP
    Luciano- SP/RP
    Yamaguchi- RP
    Mayza-RP
    Wags - RP
    McGuire- C
    J.Davis- CF
    Y. Diaz- SP/RP
    R.Urena-SS
    T.White- 1B


    But you could make a case for at least everyone down to Borucki ( aka the first 14) on that list being on the roster, and maybe even a few below that too. It may not be 80M, but unless they make a bunch of trades it is going to ne a big number compared to what those same players will make this season.
    That sounds about right however if Teoscar is for real he will cash in 2022:arb2 and even bigger in 2023:arb3. It's the reason I brought up Castillo and his recently signed $4.2M.

    2021 ARB
    Teoscar
    Stripling
    Dolis
    Borucki
    Fisher
    Jansen
    Tellez
    Thornton
    Guerrero
    Biggio
    Last edited by hanton; Today at 01:13 AM.

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