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  1. #2971
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    But I think he can land better pitchers. Possibly a #2 and if you pair with prospects we could get a pretty good pitcher IMO.

  2. #2972
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    To get accurate reflection on what you consider a No.3 starter, can you give some examples of players you characterize as such. They idea that Roark or Anderson are No.3 starters on a championship team (important qualifier) is laughable.
    I've never said that Roark of Anderson are #3 starters, they're barely a 5 in my opinion. Robbie Ray would be a 3 in my opinion, and Walkers career numbers suggest he is too, career era of 3.84, 35 -34 record looks like a 3 to me..

  3. #2973
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    What 2 seasons (Jose) are you referring to?
    2006 and 2007 were his first 2 full-time playing years. 2008 and 2009 were mediocre, he broke out in 2010.

  4. #2974
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    Considering Jays aren't committed to much salary dollars at all starting in 2021 what are chances we can get high salaried players from other teams on the cheap? Are there teams needing to shed dollars because of covid that we can take advantage of at this time?

    Found this article from a few months ago some things have changed but the jist of it applies league-wide and were ranked number 1 in flexibility salary-wise in 2021.

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/w...oll-situation/
    Vancouver Canucks
    Toronto Blue Jays
    San Francisco 49's

  5. #2975
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    It's 2020 and Atkins is the GM, that's all I care about.
    fair enough, we can agree on that, too.
    Last edited by Kenny Powders; 10-31-2020 at 09:25 AM.

  6. #2976
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    Quote Originally Posted by armchairgm View Post
    Considering Jays aren't committed to much salary dollars at all starting in 2021 what are chances we can get high salaried players from other teams on the cheap? Are there teams needing to shed dollars because of covid that we can take advantage of at this time?

    Found this article from a few months ago some things have changed but the jist of it applies league-wide and were ranked number 1 in flexibility salary-wise in 2021.

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/w...oll-situation/
    Yea not surprised, we haven't spent any money outside the Grichuk and Ryu signings. 2020 payroll was around $100M (adjusted to $50M due to the shortened season). 2021 payroll will be around $70M all in excluding FA signings. Can easily add Springer 4 years $100M and still have plenty left. That of course depends on the 2021 budget which will be set mid November.

    It's a buyers market, in uncertain times players will go where the money is. We definitely have room to make a splash.

  7. #2977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    I've never said that Roark of Anderson are #3 starters, they're barely a 5 in my opinion. Robbie Ray would be a 3 in my opinion, and Walkers career numbers suggest he is too, career era of 3.84, 35 -34 record looks like a 3 to me..
    They have potential to be, but loads of risk in either. Ray was awful this year (and a backend option the year prior) and Walker has starting 15 games total over the past 3 years. I wouldn't rely on either one of them as a #3 guy. Not if I'm planning for success.

  8. #2978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    The MLB average 3rd starter's ERA the past few years is like 4.2 ERA I believe. Not ideal but if we could get a #3 in FA, we 'd need to sign like JA Happ, who's ERA the past 3 years or so is actually around 4ish.
    Thats fine if you want to classify it like that. I'd be curious how much variance there is in the pitchers that fit that category. ie. The Red Sox #3 starter this year compared to the Dodgers #3 guy. I mean you could grab the average ERA of No.1 pitchers and by definition, it would be accurate, because every team has someone first in their rotation, but I don't believe there are 30 No.1's in the league based on skill.

    I'm coming from the lens of playoff aspiring teams I guess. I recognize its subjective that way.
    Last edited by pebloemer; 10-31-2020 at 12:57 PM.

  9. #2979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Name one HS position player with high upside he drafted. And I agree wholeheartedly that's the have different philosophies. His wasn't drafting high upside high school hitters and if it was he was pretty terrible at it.
    DJ Davis?

  10. #2980
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    Kolten Wong is now available. He ticks the box for defense... offense is meh.

  11. #2981
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Thats fine if you want to classify it like that. I'd be curious how much variance there is in the pitchers that fit that category. ie. The Red Sox #3 starter this year compared to the Dodgers #3 guy. I mean you could grab the average ERA of No.1 pitchers and by definition, it would be accurate, because every team has someone first in their rotation, but I don't believe there are 30 No.1's in the league based on skill.

    I'm coming from the lens of playoff aspiring teams I guess. I recognize its subjective that way.
    I get that perspective but even most playoff teams #3 starters era is in the 4 ERA range though. Someone like JA happ was the #3 starter on the Yankees this year behind Cole and Tanaka and his era the past 3 years was around 4 ERA. Glasnow, who was the #3 this year behind Morton and Snell, is also giving up 4 runs a game.

  12. #2982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    But I think he can land better pitchers. Possibly a #2 and if you pair with prospects we could get a pretty good pitcher IMO.
    For me, that still doesnít move the needle enough. I donít mind pairing him with prospects. But Iíd still be looking higher. You could sign Mike Minor instead of trading away Teoscar. Or just use prospects to deal for an ace and eat some salary or something like that.

  13. #2983
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    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    Kolten Wong is now available. He ticks the box for defense... offense is meh.
    His offense is at least passable for a 2B. Would we be better defensively with Wong at 2B and Biggio at 3B than we were this year?

    On the local talk show today, they said to get Springer, Wong and Kluber.

  14. #2984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I get that perspective but even most playoff teams #3 starters era is in the 4 ERA range though. Someone like JA happ was the #3 starter on the Yankees this year behind Cole and Tanaka and his era the past 3 years was around 4 ERA. Glasnow, who was the #3 this year behind Morton and Snell, is also giving up 4 runs a game.
    I'd take Glasnow in a heartbeat for Teoscar

    Ceiling, age, innings pitched, contract status of course all enter in the equation.

    I probably should have said an affordable, reliable No.3 pitcher with term.

  15. #2985
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    For me, that still doesnít move the needle enough. I donít mind pairing him with prospects. But Iíd still be looking higher. You could sign Mike Minor instead of trading away Teoscar. Or just use prospects to deal for an ace and eat some salary or something like that.
    It wouldnt move the needle much this year but should set it up to make other moves. If we trade Teo for a pitcher equivalent (who has been inconsistent but is still young and is verge of potentially breaking out), that could be a #2 pitcher there. You then make it easier to pursue other pitchers in FA.

    Otherwise, our FA is heavily weighed towards getting pitchers. We're not gonna land all the pitchers. And that still doesnt address our pitching flaws.

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