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  1. #2941
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    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    You do realize that it usually takes time to develop pitching prospects right? And you also realize that it's obvious this team concentrated on drafting mainly position players early on, right.
    and college players (pitchers) that haven't panned out.

    And to be consistent, it's only been three years of drafts. This years draft, again for obvious reasons, doesnt count and as we've been told multiple times, this FO doesn't get credit for the '16 draft. You can't have your cake and eat it too
    Pretty sure that was related to Bo and not the entire draft. Bo's pick stands out, from the other picks, as being an AA type selection vs an Atkins type pick.

  2. #2942
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    and college players (pitchers) that haven't panned out.



    Pretty sure that was related to Bo and not the entire draft. Bo's pick stands out, from the other picks, as being an AA type selection vs an Atkins type pick.
    I mean, Pearson is a JuCo, so that's not entirely true.

    Wait, Bo is an AA type? Are you implying that he actually drafted any offensive player that is worth noting?

  3. #2943
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Me too. You can find 3rd starters in free agency.
    Isn't that kinda what Anderson and Roark supposed to be for us? To be a 3/4?

  4. #2944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    I mean, Pearson is a JuCo, so that's not entirely true.
    Yes the only one and he's still a prospect.


    Wait, Bo is an AA type? Are you implying that he actually drafted any offensive player that is worth noting?
    Yes. HS player with high upside. GM's/organizations have different draft philosophies...they don't all just select the best available

  5. #2945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    You do realize that it usually takes time to develop pitching prospects right? And you also realize that it's obvious this team concentrated on drafting mainly position players early on, right.

    And to be consistent, it's only been three years of drafts. This years draft, again for obvious reasons, doesnt count and as we've been told multiple times, this FO doesn't get credit for the '16 draft. You can't have your cake and eat it too
    In hantons defence Im the only one refers to the 16 draft as AAs scouts draft. And even then, Atkins gets the credit for pulling the trigger on the 2 prospects that turned into something.
    Im not trying to discredit Atkins with that statement. Im just speaking straight facts. The changes to the scouting department came after that draft, and the next draft (after the changes) got worse.

  6. #2946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    I mean, Pearson is a JuCo, so that's not entirely true.

    Wait, Bo is an AA type? Are you implying that he actually drafted any offensive player that is worth noting?
    Can we not? Slippery slope.

  7. #2947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Isn't that kinda what Anderson and Roark supposed to be for us? To be a 3/4?
    Yes. But what does that have to do with it?

  8. #2948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Isn't that kinda what Anderson and Roark supposed to be for us? To be a 3/4?
    Wouldnt it be devastating if Teo keeps hitting the way he has been, and the middle of the rotation pitcher pulls an Anderson/Roark?

  9. #2949
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Yes. 5 years of drafting and all we have is T.J. Zeuch and Pearson. As far as this years FA class Walker and Ray are pretty legit. In the top 10 of all FA pitchers.

    Atkins mentioned again just a few days ago about adding a significant piece. I don't consider Walker or Ray significant so it's kind of wait and see.
    Cmon man. You know theyre coming, its pretty clear they made it a point to acquire pitching prospects. Not just trade, but draft as well. Kloff, Manoah, SWR, Kay.

    For FA Im thinking wed be looking at a guy like Minor. Probably get him on a shorter term. I want Bauer, but its highly unlikely.

  10. #2950
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Cmon man. You know theyre coming, its pretty clear they made it a point to acquire pitching prospects. Not just trade, but draft as well. Kloff, Manoah, SWR, Kay.

    For FA Im thinking wed be looking at a guy like Minor. Probably get him on a shorter term. I want Bauer, but its highly unlikely.
    Oh I know they're coming but just saying 2021 won't have any homegrown pitchers - as much as I'd like to see Pearson in the rotation it's not a sure thing.

    Definitely interested in Minor. It's a buyers market so short term deals will be a thing

  11. #2951
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    Jun 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Wouldnt it be devastating if Teo keeps hitting the way he has been, and the middle of the rotation pitcher pulls an Anderson/Roark?
    I think we need to be real here, NO way Teoscar only nets a 3 starter, he's an MVP candidate for god's sake. He'll net a true #1 or you simply don't consider trading him. We have control till after the 2023 season, why would anyone consider trading him for anything less.

    We have a .900+ OPS gold glove lf'r, a .900+ ops rf's and a .793 cf'r, hoping these don't regress, but I don't see the urgency to do anything to the of, more along the line of an impact 3B internally or not. Fixing our pitching is the priority to me.

  12. #2952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    I think we need to be real here, NO way Teoscar only nets a 3 starter, he's an MVP candidate for god's sake. He'll net a true #1 or you simply don't consider trading him. We have control till after the 2023 season, why would anyone consider trading him for anything less.

    We have a .900+ OPS gold glove lf'r, a .900+ ops rf's and a .793 cf'r, hoping these don't regress, but I don't see the urgency to do anything to the of, more along the line of an impact 3B internally or not. Fixing our pitching is the priority to me.
    Well if anything we learned about the WS is that defense matters. If you expect increased production from Vlad and the catcher spot, I think you could look to upgrade on Teoscar and his defense. And selling high on him would be a proactive move to upgrade our rotation and possibly even the farm if possible.

    Someone compared him to Bautista because they had breakout years at the same age. Bautista always had elite plate discipline, even before his breakout. I'm not convinced with Teoscar. Is he a .290 hitter with .340 OBP, with power going forward? Or does he maintain that power and revert back to his career norms of .230/.300? Those types of players are replaceable, especially if they have average to below average fielding.


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  13. #2953
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Wouldnt it be devastating if Teo keeps hitting the way he has been, and the middle of the rotation pitcher pulls an Anderson/Roark?
    For the record, I brought up #3 starter as realistic return, but I don't consider either of those pitchers to be #3 starters. Even prior to this season. They are back end starters. A number 3 starter is a guy who you can confidently send out there as a starter in a playoff game. A guy like Zach Plesac would fit into that type of category for me. It is a really valuable piece. When people throw terms like #1 starter out there, I think of Bauer, Kershaw, Cole, etc. There isn't enough of those guys for each team in the league to have one.

    These conversations get lost easily if we don't have a shared idea about what those terms are (I'm not saying my way of classifying it is right, it is just how I view pitching needs for good starting rotations).
    Last edited by pebloemer; 10-30-2020 at 02:14 PM.

  14. #2954
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    For the record, I brought up #3 starter as realistic return, but I don't consider either of those pitchers to be #3 starters. Even prior to this season. They are back end starters. A number 3 starter is a guy who you can confidently send out there as a starter in a playoff game. A guy like Zach Plesac would fit into that type of category for me. It is a really valuable piece. When people throw terms like #1 starter out there, I think of Bauer, Kershaw, Cole, etc. There isn't enough of those guys for each team in the league to have one.

    These conversations get lost easily if we don't have a shared idea about what those terms are (I'm not saying my way of classifying it is right, it is just how I view pitching needs for good starting rotations).
    If were assigning #ranks then I would put ryu as a #2.

  15. #2955
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    Jun 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Well if anything we learned about the WS is that defense matters. If you expect increased production from Vlad and the catcher spot, I think you could look to upgrade on Teoscar and his defense. And selling high on him would be a proactive move to upgrade our rotation and possibly even the farm if possible.

    Someone compared him to Bautista because they had breakout years at the same age. Bautista always had elite plate discipline, even before his breakout. I'm not convinced with Teoscar. Is he a .290 hitter with .340 OBP, with power going forward? Or does he maintain that power and revert back to his career norms of .230/.300? Those types of players are replaceable, especially if they have average to below average fielding.
    The elite plate discipline you refer to means a .718 OPS, a .313 OBP and 15 hr's in 2008 with 370 ab's, or the 13 hr's in 336 ab's in 2009 with .349 OBP and a .757 OPS, the prior years were worse yet. Jose was a nothingburger until his breakout in 2010.

    Teoscar's defense isn't great but he did have 5 outfield assists in 2020, let's not think he isn't one of our best players. His last half of 2019 was .900+ OPS and his 2020 season was as well. I don't believe this is a mirage.

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