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  1. #2926
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7,156
    Grichuk could def be moved if needed, but I would prefer to keep him. A little competition never hurts, and solid internal depth isn't abundant in the OF. I know 10M is a little much for a guy who may not play 150 games, but they can afford it. If they are going to try and win, a solid bench wouldn't hurt.

  2. #2927
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,359
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Grichuk could def be moved if needed, but I would prefer to keep him. A little competition never hurts, and solid internal depth isn't abundant in the OF. I know 10M is a little much for a guy who may not play 150 games, but they can afford it. If they are going to try and win, a solid bench wouldn't hurt.
    in this covid off season it's absolutely not a sure thing that he can be moved and he's long passed the stage where competition means anything to him. I do agree with the latter part of your statement, might just have to bear it and manage his playing time.

  3. #2928
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    104
    think
    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Impossible to know. A young guy with decent ceiling (#3 starter) that has some limited MLB experience, but small sample size?

    Teoscar is older and doesn't have enough a sample size to command more IMO. Grichuk doesn't have any value in my mind. There is a reason why we are discussing moving one of them. Teoscar should have some value.
    Teoscar was .900+ OPS after the 2019 all star break. He's an MVP candidate in 2020, we have him under control till after 2023, I don't think he's going anywhere. He's the same age as Bats was when he broke out. I believe he'll be a perennial all-star. I'm not sure we need any outfield help. Grich was a .793 OPS CF, good defense and 30 hr power. I think we need an upgrade at 3B, and improved performance at catcher, and we'll be ok. We were 11th in team OPS in 2020 and 7th in runs scored in the whole league. Offense isn't our problem, starting pitching and defense let us down in 2020.

  4. #2929
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    12,023
    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Impossible to know. A young guy with decent ceiling (#3 starter) that has some limited MLB experience, but small sample size?

    Teoscar is older and doesn't have enough a sample size to command more IMO. Grichuk doesn't have any value in my mind. There is a reason why we are discussing moving one of them. Teoscar should have some value.
    Id rather see what teo can become than add a 3rd starter.

  5. #2930
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    23,119
    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Impossible to know. A young guy with decent ceiling (#3 starter) that has some limited MLB experience, but small sample size?

    Teoscar is older and doesn't have enough a sample size to command more IMO. Grichuk doesn't have any value in my mind. There is a reason why we are discussing moving one of them. Teoscar should have some value.
    I agree Teoscar would have more value than Grichuk. I'm kind of in the same boat as Chong though with wanting to see what he could do over what his supposed return would be. Now if Teoscar could be paired with any prospect not named SWR or Martin for a #1 arm? That'd be something I'd be a little more interested in. This is all only in a possible George Springer situation though.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #2931
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    57,215
    What could we have paired with Teoscar to match San Fiego's offer for Clev?

  7. #2932
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    West Side
    Posts
    12,855
    Anyone want to take a stab at what our rotation will look like next year? I think they should bring back Walker and Ray (strictly to see if he can put it back together) and somehow get an impact starter.

    Ryu
    FA/trade
    Walker
    Pearson
    Ray/everyone else


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  8. #2933
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,359
    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Anyone want to take a stab at what our rotation will look like next year? I think they should bring back Walker and Ray (strictly to see if he can put it back together) and somehow get an impact starter.

    Ryu
    FA/trade
    Walker
    Pearson
    Ray/everyone else
    That's basically it. I'd be ok with this

    Ryu
    Walker
    Ray
    Pearson
    everyone else

  9. #2934
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    57,215
    Yea I think that's what it will look like.

    I think Shoemaker will be brought back as well.

  10. #2935
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    12,023
    Same patchwork rotation weve grown accustomed to.

  11. #2936
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,359
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Same patchwork rotation weve grown accustomed to.
    Yes. 5 years of drafting and all we have is T.J. Zeuch and Pearson. As far as this years FA class Walker and Ray are pretty legit. In the top 10 of all FA pitchers.

    Atkins mentioned again just a few days ago about adding a significant piece. I don't consider Walker or Ray significant so it's kind of wait and see.

  12. #2937
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    14,052
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Id rather see what teo can become than add a 3rd starter.
    Me too. You can find 3rd starters in free agency.

  13. #2938
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    12,250
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    think

    Teoscar was .900+ OPS after the 2019 all star break. He's an MVP candidate in 2020, we have him under control till after 2023, I don't think he's going anywhere. He's the same age as Bats was when he broke out. I believe he'll be a perennial all-star. I'm not sure we need any outfield help. Grich was a .793 OPS CF, good defense and 30 hr power. I think we need an upgrade at 3B, and improved performance at catcher, and we'll be ok. We were 11th in team OPS in 2020 and 7th in runs scored in the whole league. Offense isn't our problem, starting pitching and defense let us down in 2020.
    You are absolutely correct. Offense isn't the problem. Which is why some of us are looking at OF defense and pitching as areas of concern. That is precisely the premise in selling an OF for SP and filling in with a defensive replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Id rather see what teo can become than add a 3rd starter.
    If we can supplement starting pitching with legitimate arms in FA, I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I agree Teoscar would have more value than Grichuk. I'm kind of in the same boat as Chong though with wanting to see what he could do over what his supposed return would be. Now if Teoscar could be paired with any prospect not named SWR or Martin for a #1 arm? That'd be something I'd be a little more interested in. This is all only in a possible George Springer situation though.
    You can want to see it. Sometimes the trades you do make are as risky as the trades you don't. If OF defense is a problem, you can deal the CF for nothing (or replacement level value for similar contractual obligation), the GG candidate (Gurriel) who has been arguably our best offensive player over a 2 year sample, or the breakout offensive player (Hernandez) who has promise and as such, value, but less sample size. I like Hernandez much more than Grichuk, but I don't see why any financially strapped organization would give any value for Grichuk's contract amidst a pandemic when there are no fans in the stands. Arguably all teams fit that criteria this off-season. I also would not deal Gurriel outside a really generous offer. So the options are clear for me, at least in the context of what is realistic.

  14. #2939
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Shore
    Posts
    11,426
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Id rather see what teo can become than add a 3rd starter.
    Me too. I don't think teams will be offering much for a guy who hasn't put together a full, consistent season.

  15. #2940
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Shore
    Posts
    11,426
    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Yes. 5 years of drafting and all we have is T.J. Zeuch and Pearson. As far as this years FA class Walker and Ray are pretty legit. In the top 10 of all FA pitchers.

    Atkins mentioned again just a few days ago about adding a significant piece. I don't consider Walker or Ray significant so it's kind of wait and see.
    You do realize that it usually takes time to develop pitching prospects right? And you also realize that it's obvious this team concentrated on drafting mainly position players early on, right.

    And to be consistent, it's only been three years of drafts. This years draft, again for obvious reasons, doesnt count and as we've been told multiple times, this FO doesn't get credit for the '16 draft. You can't have your cake and eat it too

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