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  1. #5491
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    2,868
    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Ya don't misrepresent my position. I didn't once call for fiscal conservancy. I said there's other ways to spend that money. If they bring Ray back, I won't complain.

    We're having a discussion on off season scenarios.
    Okay then let me be clearer I firmly believe that with Ryu getting older, now is not the time to be subtracting a pitcher who may have finally discovered how to get the best out of himself. He pitched at a near Cy Young level this year and heís in his prime. Granted heís been erratic in his career But heís a known quantity in the clubhouse and Iíll tell you straight outÖ.if I ran the Mets my priority is to resign Syndergaard (by giving him a qualifying offer) and going after Robbie Ray hard, With DeGrom coming off injury a quality starter is a must.

    Syndergaard has been very vocal about wanting to come back to the Mets. But I think the new owner by going hard after Bauer, has shown he believes in pitching as the key. I honestly feel if the Jays donít pay close attention to him Robbie Ray will be pitching in NY next year and that the Blue Jays will be regretting that decision.

  2. #5492
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    14,496
    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    I think this is a little unfair. I don't think anyone is advocating for not spending money. The issue is that both Ray and Semien have spotty track records and are going to command big bucks on multi-year deals. That money might be better spent on different players.
    If you arenít planning on re-signing 2 MVP talents then they should have been flipped at the deadline.

  3. #5493
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    If you arenít planning on re-signing 2 MVP talents then they should have been flipped at the deadline.
    On the flip side, it's not a good idea to be trading players off of what is probably the second or third best team in the AL. This season may be a waste for guys like you but I'm sure some of the younger players earned some valuable experience in this stretch run.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  4. #5494
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    Jan 2007
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    Ontario
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    15,033
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    If you arenít planning on re-signing 2 MVP talents then they should have been flipped at the deadline.
    I think the final month of the season completely destroys this line of thinking. They were making a playoff push and those guys were crucial to that run.

  5. #5495
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    59,443
    They didnt have a bad enough record to sell at the deadline.

    I was comfortable standing pat though I was annoyed we gave up a lot for berrios.

  6. #5496
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    Feb 2009
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    14,496
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I think the final month of the season completely destroys this line of thinking. They were making a playoff push and those guys were crucial to that run.
    Iím just playing devils advocate, but if they didnít go on that insane run out of now where then the conversation is very different. Bats got hot for a couple weeks there no question.

  7. #5497
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    Feb 2009
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    14,496
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    If you arenít planning on re-signing 2 MVP talents then they should have been flipped at the deadline.
    And the point of this is that they should be re-signed.

  8. #5498
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    262
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Iím just playing devils advocate, but if they didnít go on that insane run out of now where then the conversation is very different. Bats got hot for a couple weeks there no question.
    The Jays underperformed to their Pythagorean by 8. Their expected win/loss of 99-63 I think more accurately reflects where this team should have finished. There were lots of factors, playing over half their home games at Dunedin where they were barely .500 vs the Rogers Centre where they went .694, bull-pen implosions, offense sucking in April, (Grichuk essentially carried us in April), hitting struggles for 2 weeks late in the season. This team dealt with three different homes, young players maturing, and we received some outstanding performances by many players. We had a great bullpen in April, but when you lose Merryweather, Phelps, Borucki, Hatch, Dollis, etc., we had to know regression was coming, but not necessarily as bad as it turned out to be.

    I fully believed this team would win 90+ games. They did and contended for a playoff spot to the very last day of the season. It's unfortunate to miss out this year, but we're set up for a 4 - 5 year run with a very talented young core. I'd take this team vs the 2015 team was aging, had peaked and even though they made the playoffs in 2016, they were in need of a tear-down and rebuild. Atkins dd that and the rebound came about pretty quick. Imagine Jays fans if we had 4 x 100 loss seasons like Baltimore. Or Detroit's 77 win season being their best result in 5 years.

    There's a lot to like going forward!

  9. #5499
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    They didnt have a bad enough record to sell at the deadline.

    I was comfortable standing pat though I was annoyed we gave up a lot for berrios.
    Really? I was happy as **** when they were able to draft Martin but the guy has absolutely no power. He had a .382 SLG, and a .792 OPS as a 22 year old in AA in total and his ISO here this past year was .127 and was even less in Minny. I mean he could turn it around but it seems like an ideal sell while high situation and we get a guy with control who could become an ace. Ill take it any day

  10. #5500
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    Sep 2007
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    West Side
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Really? I was happy as **** when they were able to draft Martin but the guy has absolutely no power. He had a .382 SLG, and a .792 OPS as a 22 year old in AA in total and his ISO here this past year was .127 and was even less in Minny. I mean he could turn it around but it seems like an ideal sell while high situation and we get a guy with control who could become an ace. Ill take it any day
    You're not wrong but his development was stunted because of Covid shutdown last year. Maybe he develops it but right now it's looking like it was the right move, and I was someone who had a tough time stomaching losing him and SWR.


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  11. #5501
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    Aug 2008
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    59,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Really? I was happy as **** when they were able to draft Martin but the guy has absolutely no power. He had a .382 SLG, and a .792 OPS as a 22 year old in AA in total and his ISO here this past year was .127 and was even less in Minny. I mean he could turn it around but it seems like an ideal sell while high situation and we get a guy with control who could become an ace. Ill take it any day
    He played half a season in teh minors before trading him so dont see how its a sell high situation.

    Value wise it was a clear overpay. I did mention that if we had made a other deal to push us over the top then I can understand overpaying. But at the time even acquiring Berrios didnt seem enoughcso it felt like a waste of a half season and we needed a miracle Sept just to stay im it.

  12. #5502
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    Feb 2009
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    14,496
    I love berrios, but heís another guy that will need to get paid. My worry is that we donít make the playoffs again next season, and by 2023 we are wishing we could trade berrios for SWR straight up. The emergence of manoah helps majorly, but we will need more cheap pitching in the future.
    I donít remember any good arms coming up in the minors. Who am I forgetting?

    Again, Iím assuming our salary will be 160mil going forward. Thatís enough to lock up he bats, and maybe pay for 2 expensive arms.

    After this upcoming season we need to transition from a ďspend while the young guys are cheapĒ to a ďtry to surround the expensive core with quality youngstersĒ type of team. I see hoarding young arms as a major priority moving forward.

    This is a good problem.

  13. #5503
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I love berrios, but heís another guy that will need to get paid. My worry is that we donít make the playoffs again next season, and by 2023 we are wishing we could trade berrios for SWR straight up. The emergence of manoah helps majorly, but we will need more cheap pitching in the future.
    I donít remember any good arms coming up in the minors. Who am I forgetting?

    Again, Iím assuming our salary will be 160mil going forward. Thatís enough to lock up he bats, and maybe pay for 2 expensive arms.

    After this upcoming season we need to transition from a ďspend while the young guys are cheapĒ to a ďtry to surround the expensive core with quality youngstersĒ type of team. I see hoarding young arms as a major priority moving forward.

    This is a good problem.
    Not a lot. It's a pretty steep drop off after Hoglund and to some extent Kloffenstein. I don't think they drafted a hitter in the last draft though so hopefully we start seeing some of those guys shoot up boards next year

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  14. #5504
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    6,709
    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    and thats fair, but you know as well as i do that fans turn on a dime and nobody is saying exactly who they would go out and get. its easy to make changes, but just as we saw Blue Jays fans hailing the Ryu acquisition, Calling him an Ace at the time, now they deny they ever said that and that he's not an Ace.... At the time I said it was a great move, a necessary move. I still feel that way and I stand by what I said because it changed the Dynamic of the team in a way it needed to be changed.

    Lech, I know you've see it As well as I. You're too intelligent not to....All im asking for is a little Accountability. make suggestions of who youd sign or trade for and at what cost.and put your name on it. dont just say make changes and sit back to criticize after the fact. thats all im asking.......

    example: when the Jays Acquired a certain Cy Young winner on a $5M dollar contract. it was a great move. But over time fans in here denied they ever said that...... that why I say accountability matters

    so yes if you want to make changes thats perfectly fine. but make actual suggestions, be specific and at what cost. im all for that. And I dont think thats too much to ask. And just to be clear im Not referring to you specifically or Chong or Spiderdan or Wamco or Pebloemer, each of you have a history of saying exactly what you feel and most importantly, defending your positions. I respect that.
    Thanks Mike. Thatís why for this game I always ask before starting to settle on a set amount of money to spend. Otherwise itís just a waste of time. If about 60m , Iíd say stroman, matz, Donaldson, 2 stud relievers.
    Beeston: "we should be able to support a $140-$150 million payroll and that's the direction that we're headed."
    1.27.11

  15. #5505
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    13,589
    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    Thanks Mike. Thatís why for this game I always ask before starting to settle on a set amount of money to spend. Otherwise itís just a waste of time. If about 60m , Iíd say stroman, matz, Donaldson, 2 stud relievers.
    Stroman and Donaldson? That sounds like a ton of fun, but I doubt Atkins and Shapiro would want to bring either back. It feels like people have moved past some of the tension, but I don't expect Atkins and Shapiro would welcome such loud personalities back into the core culture of the group.

    I'm certainly entertained by the idea and I respect the talent though .

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