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  1. #1066
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    I don’t buy the guys won’t sign here but when you think of AAs teams anyone good that was on them were traded for so maybe there’s something to it.

    Over/under Ross and Shap sign a pitcher before New Years?

  2. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    I don’t buy the guys won’t sign here but when you think of AAs teams anyone good that was on them were traded for so maybe there’s something to it.

    Over/under Ross and Shap sign a pitcher before New Years?
    It’s because he didn’t want to overpay until he signed Russ. JP got Burnett and Ryan both on overpays. Burnett opted out luckily and saved us on that one.

    I think we nab one at the winter meetings or shortly after. Monday is going to be exciting.

  3. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    I don’t buy the guys won’t sign here but when you think of AAs teams anyone good that was on them were traded for so maybe there’s something to it.

    Over/under Ross and Shap sign a pitcher before New Years?
    A pitcher of significance, under lol. But we need something to happen here if nothing more than for the sake of discussion.

    For free agents signing here it's long been a thing we've talked about, going back decades, literally. Both in MLB and NBA.

  4. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    I don’t buy the guys won’t sign here but when you think of AAs teams anyone good that was on them were traded for so maybe there’s something to it.

    Over/under Ross and Shap sign a pitcher before New Years?
    They already signed AJ Cole

  5. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'm sure the same was true of Jose too, that doesnt mean they were treated poorly.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    brought all this up in the context of players not wanting to sign here. Why do you think Atkins has had a difficult time signing pitchers this off-season?

  6. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    A pitcher of significance, under lol. But we need something to happen here if nothing more than for the sake of discussion.

    For free agents signing here it's long been a thing we've talked about, going back decades, literally. Both in MLB and NBA.
    I wouldn't be surprised to see something get done at the winter meetings. Things seem to be moving a bit quicker this year

  7. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    brought all this up in the context of players not wanting to sign here. Why do you think Atkins has had a difficult time signing pitchers this off-season?
    For the same reasons that previous GMs here and in the NBA have had. But by all means continue blaming the current regime for that. We couldn't even get the best player ever to play (in Toronto) who also won a championship to re-sign, all the while having the best FO in the sport trying to get him to sign. Might as well blame Atkins for Kawhi Leonard too.

  8. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    For the same reasons that previous GMs here and in the NBA have had. But by all means continue blaming the current regime for that. We couldn't even get the best player ever to play (in Toronto) who also won a championship to re-sign, all the while having the best FO in the sport trying to get him to sign. Might as well blame Atkins for Kawhi Leonard too.
    That’s why we need to depend on winning big time trades for big time players.

  9. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    That’s why we need to depend on winning big time trades for big time players.
    The only thing I disagree with is "big time". You can win a bunch like AA did with Estrada, Happ, Buerhle that don't have to be over the top and can significantly improve the team. I include Buerhle because although he was part of a huge trade, he was more of a salary relief throw in than anything else.

  10. #1075
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    Does Ross and Shap have any track record of making big time deals though? Not even just with us, but prior with Cleveland?

    I dunno I always get the feeling that they over think or think they’re smarter than need be and just rely on numbers rather than taking any risk.

    Also, I can’t stand Atkins. Just the way he speaks and the scripted vocabulary.

    “We’ll continue what we’re doing to understand every opportunity across every market.” Who’s speaks like that?

  11. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    For the same reasons that previous GMs here and in the NBA have had. But by all means continue blaming the current regime for that. We couldn't even get the best player ever to play (in Toronto) who also won a championship to re-sign, all the while having the best FO in the sport trying to get him to sign. Might as well blame Atkins for Kawhi Leonard too.
    Wasn't a problem in the Gillick years

  12. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    Wasn't a problem in the Gillick years
    When they led the league in payroll?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  13. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    Wasn't a problem in the Gillick years
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    When they led the league in payroll?
    And were true contenders every year for 5-6 straight years. Jack Morris was the first big name if I recall, coming after the '91 season. Winning. Winning makes people come.

    85 win the division
    86 finish 9.5 games out, but 10 games over .500
    87 finish 2 games out
    88 finish 2 games out
    89 win the division
    90 finish 2 games out
    91 win the division

    Then the free agents start coming, Morris, Winfield, Stewart, Molitor, etc. But notice how much winning had to come first to get guys to come here. And of course, just opened a new state of the art ball park, hosting the all star game. Toronto was the place to be for a few years.

    And of course I did say it was decades since it has happened. And Gillick's tenure was over two decades ago.

  14. #1079
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    For the same reasons that previous GMs here and in the NBA have had. But by all means continue blaming the current regime for that. We couldn't even get the best player ever to play (in Toronto) who also won a championship to re-sign, all the while having the best FO in the sport trying to get him to sign. Might as well blame Atkins for Kawhi Leonard too.
    Lowry had no issue staying here.

  15. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Does Ross and Shap have any track record of making big time deals though? Not even just with us, but prior with Cleveland?

    I dunno I always get the feeling that they over think or think they’re smarter than need be and just rely on numbers rather than taking any risk.

    Also, I can’t stand Atkins. Just the way he speaks and the scripted vocabulary.

    “We’ll continue what we’re doing to understand every opportunity across every market.” Who’s speaks like that?
    AA used to say the same ****, but used the word dialogue instead.

    They don't have a track record for that. But Atkins is a first time GM, his only track record is with us. He did make the Liriano trade, I think that would be the biggest trade that was for winning.

    As for Shapiro, no trades like that, but Cleveland was/is in a perpetual state of using mostly cheap players and selling them when they get too expensive. This is an ongoing thing for them, continues to this day. They're talking about shipping out Lindor because he's going to get paid. Cleveland did acquire Swisher and Bourne while Shapiro was there, through FA. So at least he's shown a willingness to pay people in FA.

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