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  1. #1741
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    Jun 2019
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    I wasn't comparing us to the Yanks or Bosox, they both rebuilt/retooled in a very short time. They had superior assetts to trade and made some shrewd moves. All I'm saying is that it isn't unfathomable at all for the Jays to complete their rebuild over a 3 - 4 year cycle meaning 2021 we should be playoff contenders.

  2. #1742
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Remember when I was saying 2021 was the goal to be competitive and I got laughed at?
    If you think 4 positional players and an average-at-best pitching staff is enough to contend in the ALE then youíre gonna get laughed at.

    I still donít see a path to TRUE contention by 2021.
    It would take a string of miracles.
    Ryu being healthy and being a trusted ace, Giles continuing to dominate which he has never been able to do in consecutive years in his entire career, huge trades extending the core by at least 2 more top performers in the league, Pearson being Verlander out of the gate, and somehow landing another Ace.

    I think playoffs in 2022 and truly contending in 2023-24 is a more honest prediction.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 12-25-2019 at 10:16 PM.

  3. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    It depends on what your definition of competitive is if you think being A second Wildcard and getting knocked out in a one game playoff is competitive then yes maybe. But the Mets made the playoffs one year at 82-79 and I for one see that as a fluke. And not competitive.

    And if they plan to be competitive by that time they need to find a centerfielder
    They need to find a lot more than that.

  4. #1744
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    I wasn't comparing us to the Yanks or Bosox, they both rebuilt/retooled in a very short time. They had superior assetts to trade and made some shrewd moves. All I'm saying is that it isn't unfathomable at all for the Jays to complete their rebuild over a 3 - 4 year cycle meaning 2021 we should be playoff contenders.
    If we are talking about the jays winning the division then you must compare to the yeankees and Sox.

    Shall we compare outfields? Itís not even fair to do so because the jays donít have a single outfielder who would make it onto either team.

    The infields are comparable, and thatís pretty much all we have going for us.

  5. #1745
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    The Jays had JD. Granted had he been dealt before the injury riddled 2018 then that wouldíve started the rebuild instantly. Luckily for us we had some solid drafting during 2016 and 2017 which is now starting to bear fruit.
    They had more than JD. They didnít capitalize. At least they traded stroman, but thatís already an asset they were blessed with that you failed to mention.

    If Pearson flops or gets injured again the the 2017 draft bared absolutely nothing.

    He better pan out or it was a truly lost season.

  6. #1746
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    Aug 2008
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    56,695
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    It all depends what they can get. With the moves the team has made I think their in a great position to be somewhat competitive well watching the farm grow. They have the top 5 pick and loads of talented players who are 2-3 years away.

    If Giles can land a blue chip spec which I doubt or be a piece in a bigger deal to land MLB piece Iím all for it but just simply unloading him for a couple low level lottery tickets seems like a dumb move.
    I donŤt see them resigning him anyway so I'd try to maximize his value.

  7. #1747
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    If you think 4 positional players and an average-at-best pitching staff is enough to contend in the ALE then youíre gonna get laughed at.

    I still donít see a path to TRUE contention by 2021.
    It would take a string of miracles.
    Ryu being healthy and being a trusted ace, Giles continuing to dominate which he has never been able to do in consecutive years in his entire career, huge trades extending the core by at least 2 more top performers in the league, Pearson being Veela see out of the gate, and somehow landing another Ace.

    I think playoffs in 2022 and truly contending in 2023-24 is a more honest prediction.
    Hold the phone. Are you saying Ross Atkins is capable of constructing a playoff team? You're also wrong about Giles. His first two seasons were lights out. Also when did I say the current team will contend? I expect more additions to be made before 2021 along with progression from our young core. Ryu is an injury concern 100%. I'm worried about it as much as the next guy but if he stays healthy he's a legitimate ace.

    We're just a couple bats, an ace and a bullpen minus a closer away from making noise. We have a plethora of young arms to fill spots or make deals with. We're also deep at catcher. I don't necessarily think Atkins will make a big move at the 2020 TDL but next off-season or the 2021 TDL is more realistic. With the new additions we're in a really good spot to make a deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  8. #1748
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    They had more than JD. They didnít capitalize. At least they traded stroman, but thatís already an asset they were blessed with that you failed to mention.

    If Pearson flops or gets injured again the the 2017 draft bared absolutely nothing.

    He better pan out or it was a truly lost season.
    Please tell me who would've garnered any trade value besides JD. Are you operating under your old "should've blown it up after 2016" premise or your new "we could've made deals to extend the window" premise? Because it actually matters.

    You're ready to close the book on a draft that happened 2 years ago if Pearson flops? Wasn't it you saying how you shouldn't put so much faith in prospects? Isn't what you're doing kind of similar just in the negative way? Your favourite prospect Logan Warmoth actually had a good showing in the AFL.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  9. #1749
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    Edwin to the White Sox 1 year 12 mil with a team option for 12 mil in 2021.

    Knowing there was mutual interest I'm upset that Atkins couldn't match that. Edwin would've been a great get.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  10. #1750
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    That's dirt cheap for Edwin. I would've given him that easily.

  11. #1751
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Edwin to the White Sox 1 year 12 mil with a team option for 12 mil in 2021.

    Knowing there was mutual interest I'm upset that Atkins couldn't match that. Edwin would've been a great get.
    Yes too bad jays couldnít get him here. Perhaps he thought chi Sox would be more competitive than jays in the next few years?

  12. #1752
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    Apr 2009
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    862
    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    Yes too bad jays couldnít get him here. Perhaps he thought chi Sox would be more competitive than jays in the next few years?
    DHís just arenít that valuable at the deadline and we are still one year away. Shaw/Shoemaker/Giles are still probably all dealt. An outfielder would be a lot more useful.

  13. #1753
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    36
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    If we are talking about the jays winning the division then you must compare to the yeankees and Sox.

    Shall we compare outfields? Itís not even fair to do so because the jays donít have a single outfielder who would make it onto either team.

    The infields are comparable, and thatís pretty much all we have going for us.
    I'm talking play-off contender, I think I was clear about that.

  14. #1754
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    1,701
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    If you think 4 positional players and an average-at-best pitching staff is enough to contend in the ALE then youíre gonna get laughed at.

    I still donít see a path to TRUE contention by 2021.
    It would take a string of miracles.
    Ryu being healthy and being a trusted ace, Giles continuing to dominate which he has never been able to do in consecutive years in his entire career, huge trades extending the core by at least 2 more top performers in the league, Pearson being Verlander out of the gate, and somehow landing another Ace.

    I think playoffs in 2022 and truly contending in 2023-24 is a more honest prediction.
    Yea it's not some sort of light switch that teams can turn on and just magically be competitive. There has to be a true plan in place with a clear path of getting this team winning again year in and year out. Plans can change but really we only have Vlady, Bo, Biggio and Jansen as a the core not much after that. The Ryu signing - while I like it - seems to be more of a knee jerk reaction rather than something that was in their plan.

  15. #1755
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    West Side
    Posts
    12,391
    Did we really offer Cole $300m?


    The Lost Boys of PSD

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