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  1. #1141
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    Honestly I donít post here to get into baseless arguments. Itís a waste of time to even talk with you when you say things like ďno way they could/would have drafted Pearson at 24 if they didnít have 2 1st rounders. Absolutely no way at allĒ. Or ďBo only signed with us because of the changes shapiro made in the months since he was signed, end of conversationĒ. Like you have some insider information.

    We all know where you stand:
    Reed+Atkins = love forever.
    We get it. Atkins can do no wrong and anything good that has happened is directly because of their golden touch.

    Most of us disagree completely.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 12-09-2019 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Removed pelfrey/bomber comparison

  2. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Ya Reed it's time to stop with the attacks. We got rid of Bomber after he took 2/3rds of the forum with him, then mikepelfrey was here and more people left, you're doing the exact same thing they did and it's highly disruptive and annoying to read when all I want to do is discuss the offseason with others. Please stop. There's like 5 people here who regularly discuss and you're attacking 2 of them non-stop.
    Didnít see this before I posted.
    I will edit my previous post to avoid overlap.

  3. #1143
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Have to imagine Cole gets $270-280. Wonder if the Angels will pony up or if the Yankees will just blow everyone away.
    10/300 now apparently.

  4. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Still claiming I havenít responded to it? Read my last 3 posts. What am I not acknowledging?

    Show me the quote where Bo says he signed because of the HPD, and not because of our highly touted development program that AA left behind. Otherwise you are connecting dots that arenít there, or speaking in hypotheticals and acting like theyíre facts.

    The only one kicking and screaming is you. Or maybe you can point to a post where Iím kicking and screaming about this topic.
    Do you promise to read the quote I post from this article?

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...ays-spotlight/

    Now remember the original quote from Bo was about the Blue Jays player development, not the HPD. The subsequent article that I posted shows just how the HPD revamped the Blue Jays player development system previously in place. I even provided quotes which you've refused to read. Now this article confirms that Shapiro revamped the player development system almost immediately upon arrival.

    One of the first major projects Shapiro and Atkins undertook upon joining Toronto was installing a robust, forward-thinking player development department under the leadership of Gil Kim, who was hired away from the Texas Rangers. The group wanted to encourage individuality from players like Bichette, while giving them the guidance and resources they needed to become well-rounded major-league regulars while not sacrificing the distinctiveness that got them this far.
    Gil Kim was hired in January 2016 as the director of player development. You know, after AA was gone. Are you ready to admit that you're wrong now?

    Just in case you aren't here's the original post that you refuse to acknowledge.

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...4#post33286214

    statquo, these aren't attacks. Chong continuously spews nonsense in which I debate him on. I go on to prove him wrong just like I have in the above and then he quiets down on the topic for a few days only to bring it right back up a few pages later. He did it with the Nate Pearson nonsense too. I'm pounding this to death because he's proven in the past that he's only going to come back and clog the forum with more nonsense. He then goes on to cry victim when it's me who stays on topic while he starts with the name calling and petty ********.

    Edit: Didn't see Chong's edit as I was still typing while quoting his original post. Note how in his edit he now brings up the Pearson debacle yet again. See what I mean?
    Last edited by R. Johnson#3; 12-09-2019 at 05:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  5. #1145
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    Weíre amongst the finalists for Tsutsugo. Down to 4 teams. I imagine they would want him as 1B/DH. And I think this is where a problem may be for Atkins. Itís nice to be a finalist and say you were in on someone, but eventually you have to have the balls to sweeten the pot and seal the deal.

    And if the Dodgers are offering a deal to Ryu, thereís little chance he comes here.

  6. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Weíre amongst the finalists for Tsutsugo. Down to 4 teams. I imagine they would want him as 1B/DH. And I think this is where a problem may be for Atkins. Itís nice to be a finalist and say you were in on someone, but eventually you have to have the balls to sweeten the pot and seal the deal.

    And if the Dodgers are offering a deal to Ryu, thereís little chance he comes here.
    I like Tsutsugo the most out of all the options for 1B/DH

  7. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I believe this to be the most likely scenario.

    I worry though. Is it just Atkins or is it the whole system. I donít think everything can be done by committee. Sometimes you need someone with balls to get things done.
    It's very worrisome.

    It's Shapiro. He comes across as being a control freak - he shows it every now and then during interviews - gets defensive. Why do you think AA left.

    I don't believe the problem is the committee thing it's just something they like to through around when cornered. I mean every team vets their transactions - not just the Jays. and teams - including the Jays - have data (alot of data) on every single pro player (probably non pro as well) and they use it in conjunction with their committee when deciding on moves.

  8. #1148
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    ...problem now is as a result of the rebuild they have also driven this team into the ground, upset some vets along the way and now players have no interest in signing here. We needed pitching, we traded it away. smh

  9. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    ...problem now is as a result of the rebuild they have also driven this team into the ground, upset some vets along the way and now players have no interest in signing here. We needed pitching, we traded it away. smh
    I don't love everything this group has done (ie. Donaldson situation is a lost opportunity), but I'm good with the Stroman deal and Sanchez' new team even let him leave for nothing. Stroman isn't a guy I rebuild a franchise with. That said, if they like Ryu as much as the rumors indicate, now is the time to push aggressively. Don't wait for Yankees to sign Cole and Dodgers to pay for their fallback. Push on Ryu now and maybe the Dodgers push harder for Cole.

  10. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I don't love everything this group has done (ie. Donaldson situation is a lost opportunity), but I'm good with the Stroman deal and Sanchez' new team even let him leave for nothing. Stroman isn't a guy I rebuild a franchise with. That said, if they like Ryu as much as the rumors indicate, now is the time to push aggressively. Don't wait for Yankees to sign Cole and Dodgers to pay for their fallback. Push on Ryu now and maybe the Dodgers push harder for Cole.
    Agreed. They need to woo someone early. It's going to need to be an overpay too. I'd prefer Keuchel but it's looking like they want Ryu. It was also reported that MadBum wants 5 years and 9 figures. If you're going to overpay then that's the guy I'd overpay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  11. #1151
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Do you promise to read the quote I post from this article?

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...ays-spotlight/

    Now remember the original quote from Bo was about the Blue Jays player development, not the HPD. The subsequent article that I posted shows just how the HPD revamped the Blue Jays player development system previously in place. I even provided quotes which you've refused to read. Now this article confirms that Shapiro revamped the player development system almost immediately upon arrival.



    Gil Kim was hired in January 2016 as the director of player development. You know, after AA was gone. Are you ready to admit that you're wrong now?

    Just in case you aren't here's the original post that you refuse to acknowledge.

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...4#post33286214

    statquo, these aren't attacks. Chong continuously spews nonsense in which I debate him on. I go on to prove him wrong just like I have in the above and then he quiets down on the topic for a few days only to bring it right back up a few pages later. He did it with the Nate Pearson nonsense too. I'm pounding this to death because he's proven in the past that he's only going to come back and clog the forum with more nonsense. He then goes on to cry victim when it's me who stays on topic while he starts with the name calling and petty ********.

    Edit: Didn't see Chong's edit as I was still typing while quoting his original post. Note how in his edit he now brings up the Pearson debacle yet again. See what I mean?
    Omg man...
    Iíve acknowledged all of this.
    My conclusion is that you are drawing lines where there are none.
    You seriously think Bo would have signed with the jays over the HPD gimmick if we had a **** history of drafting and developing? Thatís pretty much what youíre saying (to death) here: the only reason Bo wanted to be a jay is because of this thing that has only just been put in place, and had no track record of providing any Real tangible difference in player performance.

    Whereís the quote where Bo says the reason he signed was the HPD? I still donít see it, just assumptions.

    My opinion is still that your stance on this is ridiculous and I disagree.
    I also still think this argument isnít worth my time because in the entire time you and I have been posting here - I have never seen you change your mind when you have your feet dug in the dirt like you have had all offseason.

    Seriously Reed? I clog the forum?...



    Hereís the 2 things that you thought you ďownedĒ me on lol:
    1) That if we picked Pearson instead of warmoth and retained talent, we could have the same farm + dosh and enc on the roster.
    2) that Bo wanted to sign with the jays because of the reputation the farm had built up for the last 6 years.

    Unless you have some type of quote that says that Bo signed only because of the HPD and not because of the farms reputation, or a quote where Atkins says they would never consider picking Pearson at 24 and would only consider him at 27th... then there is not even a bit of ďowningĒ.

    Itís just a lot of you acting like your opinion is worth more than mine and it isnít.

  12. #1152
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I don't love everything this group has done (ie. Donaldson situation is a lost opportunity), but I'm good with the Stroman deal and Sanchez' new team even let him leave for nothing. Stroman isn't a guy I rebuild a franchise with. That said, if they like Ryu as much as the rumors indicate, now is the time to push aggressively. Don't wait for Yankees to sign Cole and Dodgers to pay for their fallback. Push on Ryu now and maybe the Dodgers push harder for Cole.
    No chance we get him even if we do we are going to overpay, especially now the market has been set, and he can't stay on the field and we let go a 200 inning a season 5'8 beast. i mean it's done now and time to move on but I think it's important to recognize what could have been.

    I'm getting sick of the "Jays are in on" rumors. Just estimating here, there are 120 legit starting pitchers in the league, 60 - 80 are good and 30 to 40 are front line starters. Stroman is in that later group, he put up a better bWAR than both Wheeler and Thor, it's no wonder the Mets jumped at that offer pulling the trigger 4 days before the deadline.

  13. #1153
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Do you promise to read the quote I post from this article?

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...ays-spotlight/

    Now remember the original quote from Bo was about the Blue Jays player development, not the HPD. The subsequent article that I posted shows just how the HPD revamped the Blue Jays player development system previously in place. I even provided quotes which you've refused to read. Now this article confirms that Shapiro revamped the player development system almost immediately upon arrival.



    Gil Kim was hired in January 2016 as the director of player development. You know, after AA was gone. Are you ready to admit that you're wrong now?

    Just in case you aren't here's the original post that you refuse to acknowledge.

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...4#post33286214

    statquo, these aren't attacks. Chong continuously spews nonsense in which I debate him on. I go on to prove him wrong just like I have in the above and then he quiets down on the topic for a few days only to bring it right back up a few pages later. He did it with the Nate Pearson nonsense too. I'm pounding this to death because he's proven in the past that he's only going to come back and clog the forum with more nonsense. He then goes on to cry victim when it's me who stays on topic while he starts with the name calling and petty ********.

    Edit: Didn't see Chong's edit as I was still typing while quoting his original post. Note how in his edit he now brings up the Pearson debacle yet again. See what I mean?
    Check the edit again. I explained the edit in it.

  14. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I don't love everything this group has done (ie. Donaldson situation is a lost opportunity), but I'm good with the Stroman deal and Sanchez' new team even let him leave for nothing. Stroman isn't a guy I rebuild a franchise with. That said, if they like Ryu as much as the rumors indicate, now is the time to push aggressively. Don't wait for Yankees to sign Cole and Dodgers to pay for their fallback. Push on Ryu now and maybe the Dodgers push harder for Cole.
    I too didnít mind the stroman trade, and the only reason I didnít like the Sanchez trade was because it was selling low (not like we have better options that could have more value than if he bounced back).

    Might take 3 years to land ryu, but I think they should do it. I think he would look really good with an opener and that way you can limit his innings while still letting him pitch into the 6th.

  15. #1155
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    No chance we get him even if we do we are going to overpay, especially now the market has been set, and he can't stay on the field and we let go a 200 inning a season 5'8 beast. i mean it's done now and time to move on but I think it's important to recognize what could have been.

    I'm getting sick of the "Jays are in on" rumors. Just estimating here, there are 120 legit starting pitchers in the league, 60 - 80 are good and 30 to 40 are front line starters. Stroman is in that later group, he put up a better bWAR than both Wheeler and Thor, it's no wonder the Mets jumped at that offer pulling the trigger 4 days before the deadline.
    Still though, this team isnít close enough to miss stroman. I prefer the specs tbh. I donít think stroman will be as good when we are ready to contend (just like giles). Cash them in!

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