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  1. #931
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Nah, it's somewhere in the middle. Rizzo doesn't play a premium position and that makes a big difference. I think you're forgetting the value of prospects has changed drastically, in the last while. Teams aren't as eager to deal them.
    Legit didn't see this haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Nah, it's somewhere in the middle. Rizzo doesn't play a premium position and that makes a big difference. I think you're forgetting the value of prospects has changed drastically, in the last while. Teams aren't as eager to deal them.
    Well whether he's worth it or not is a different matter, cub fans will lose their **** if he's traded for anything less. Hence we will have to overpay

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Some old story from someone who constantly accuses others of that exact thing.
    We all realize the only good piece they actually TRIED to capitalize on was stroman. Thatís like the main problem.

    Regardless Reed - Based on you calling out hanton to gloat about the value of the wheeler contract, I know you can relate to this: DAMN it feels good to make a prediction about something way ahead of everyone else, and to watch it come into fruition... people slowly coming to the same realizations.

    I just wish it wasnít at the expense of me enjoying the team Iíve followed my entire life

    At least Atkins will be replaced soon. Hopefully with someone competent.
    Dude, the only way they could've capitalized is if they made trades in the 2016 off-season and that just wasn't realistic. Literally everyone started sucking and getting hurt for 2 years. We're slowly going in the same circle that we always do. It isn't really an excuse, the team was in an absolute crap situation for both 2017 and 2018. 2018 mainly being about JD's injury and not the actual record of the team.

    I actually called the World Series participants and winner. I've been on a roll lately

    What are you right about? That Atkins can't build a winning roster? This is the 1st off-season where the direction of the team isn't floundering or spiralling downwards. It's going to take a couple off-seasons and trade deadlines to see what he can do. Teams aren't built in an off-season. But hey, glad you're getting some enjoyment predicting the future?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #934
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    Jan 2009
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    11,762
    An article in the athletic has the Jays trading Teoscar Hernandez and Gabriel Moreno for Matt Boyd. Nothing to sexy but I could see something like that happen.

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    Well for starters we have other FO's that are panning the Stroman trade. Tell me again who the Jays traded to get Jose Bautista? And none of the players Atkins acquired over a couple of years ago look like they'll be anything special. Even if Atkins makes a trade similar of a 2.3 WAR Adam Lind (earning $7M at that) into a 3.9 WAR Estrada would be something. Shoot even in his last full season as a Blue Jays did Kevin Pillar have a higher WAR than Lind did and Pillar was making half of Lind. I just don't think Atkins is willing to make the risky trades as his predecessor and that's fine, but you're also going to miss out on opportunities as he did by not trading Dosh or even Happ earlier.

    You have to agree that Happ and Dosh netting garbage is pretty disappointing and those were his biggest chips. As we await the Stroman trade result maybe Anderson will be the first bonafide player Atkins acquires via trade.
    Honestly Anderson does have that kind of potential. He could put up an era in the 3ís and it would not surprise me.

  6. #936
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    Jan 2009
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    11,762
    Twins re-sign Pineda for 2-20. I would of loved to see the Jays do that. Another arm off the board.

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'd bet both my left and right nut on Jose.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Bautista was offered a contract while JD was gently booted out the door. Then again, Jose's contract was offered when the team still had a glimmer of hope where as JD was up for a new deal when a bunch of rookies would be showing up.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  8. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    An article in the athletic has the Jays trading Teoscar Hernandez and Gabriel Moreno for Matt Boyd. Nothing to sexy but I could see something like that happen.
    I'm not really a fan of Boyd. Yeah, he can fan batters but he was awful in the 2nd half last year. He also led pitchers in home runs allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  9. #939
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Nah, it's somewhere in the middle. Rizzo doesn't play a premium position and that makes a big difference. I think you're forgetting the value of prospects has changed drastically, in the last while. Teams aren't as eager to deal them.
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Yeah, because 1st basemen have loads of value now. I get that Rizzo is a great player but I doubt you'd see him traded for a kings ransom. Especially with how much value is put into prospects these days.
    I agree I donít see him getting too much.

    I donít even want to give up assets for a 2 year contract.
    We have VERY limited assets and I donít see this team winning within the next 2 seasons unless something insane and totally out of character for shatkins happens.

  10. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I'm not really a fan of Boyd. Yeah, he can fan batters but he was awful in the 2nd half last year. He also led pitchers in home runs allowed.
    Same. Tbh I think he has it all except velocity. Canít teach velo.

    I like the guy though and I hope he cashís in during FA. Just not with the jays.

  11. #941
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Nah, it's somewhere in the middle. Rizzo doesn't play a premium position and that makes a big difference. I think you're forgetting the value of prospects has changed drastically, in the last while. Teams aren't as eager to deal them.
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Dude, the only way they could've capitalized is if they made trades in the 2016 off-season and that just wasn't realistic. Literally everyone started sucking and getting hurt for 2 years. We're slowly going in the same circle that we always do. It isn't really an excuse, the team was in an absolute crap situation for both 2017 and 2018. 2018 mainly being about JD's injury and not the actual record of the team.

    I actually called the World Series participants and winner. I've been on a roll lately

    What are you right about? That Atkins can't build a winning roster? This is the 1st off-season where the direction of the team isn't floundering or spiralling downwards. It's going to take a couple off-seasons and trade deadlines to see what he can do. Teams aren't built in an off-season. But hey, glad you're getting some enjoyment predicting the future?
    Unfortunately - Iíve been right about what we will get with Shapiro and Atkins.

    Moving forward - They will build up the farm like every new GM, but be replaced when they prove they cannot build a contender in the ALE even if they understood what it truly takes.

    If they arenít trying for Cole, then they have no idea what type of talent you need on your roster to be a perennial contender.
    Stros couldnít even do it this year with 3 coles on their roster.
    Last edited by ChongInc.; 12-06-2019 at 09:40 AM.

  12. #942
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    lol Coke

  13. #943
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    ..**** just saw Lance's post on Pineda. ...get after Nelson

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    Well for starters we have other FO's that are panning the Stroman trade. Tell me again who the Jays traded to get Jose Bautista? And none of the players Atkins acquired over a couple of years ago look like they'll be anything special. Even if Atkins makes a trade similar of a 2.3 WAR Adam Lind (earning $7M at that) into a 3.9 WAR Estrada would be something. Shoot even in his last full season as a Blue Jays did Kevin Pillar have a higher WAR than Lind did and Pillar was making half of Lind. I just don't think Atkins is willing to make the risky trades as his predecessor and that's fine, but you're also going to miss out on opportunities as he did by not trading Dosh or even Happ earlier.

    You have to agree that Happ and Dosh netting garbage is pretty disappointing and those were his biggest chips. As we await the Stroman trade result maybe Anderson will be the first bonafide player Atkins acquires via trade.
    That's great that other teams were annoyed by the trade. That doesn't mean it was a bad one? I'm not saying it was a win either. I've said it's the trade that will define Atkins but the book is definitely still out on it.

    Bautista was an amazing find, no doubt. To expect GMs to be able to do that is asinine though. That's the kind of trade that comes around once in a lifetime. Did Robinzon Diaz ever even play in the majors?

    Pillar got no value because he was really just seen as a 1 year deal barring a Jose Bautista-like miracle. His raise in arb was clearly one nobody would've wanted to pay. His slash line was virtually the same as 2018 and he was due to get paid around 10 mil this time.

    I fully agree Atkins missed the boat on trading Dosh before 2018. To critique him on the return of the actual trade is kind of silly though. He was injured until the 11th hour. There was a rift in the clubhouse and it was clear he wasn't going to be kept beyond 2018 so a move had to be made for a player who barely finished a rehab assignment.

    I don't think there are many GMs who deal like AA does. Atkins is pretty much the polar opposite of AA. Slowly but surely building the farm and acquiring depth as opposed to gutting it at the first possible opportunity. Atkins made good deals to supplement a playoff team in 2016 although they were short term.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  15. #945
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    Jan 2007
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    Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    Twins re-sign Pineda for 2-20. I would of loved to see the Jays do that. Another arm off the board.
    That's disappointing a little bit.

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