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  1. #916
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    If the rumours out of Chicago are true and Anthony Rizzo is available then he's a guy we should try and acquire. We'd have one of the best infields in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Well when the same taking points get re-hashed over and over (bad trades etc) only to have no rebuttal when theyíre opposed then yeah, it does seem like hating for the sake of hating. Iíve yet to hear anyone give examples of bad trades Atkins has made outside of the obvious one. People just keep repeating that he doesnít know how to deal or makes bad ones.

    Edit: The Happ trade is the only other one thatís been met with actual debate. Yes that was a bad trade but there clearly isnít a big market for aging rental pitchers anymore. As the Vargas trade confirmed this TDL.
    Atkins needs to make a clear slam dunk trade that is win for the Jays. I don't think it's happened yet. I'm sure we'll all be happy if Anderson puts up a 5.0 WAR this season but until Atkins makes such a trade it is hard to get excited about "winning" minor trades. I really don't care about players that post a sub 2.0 WAR because they are considered "replaceable."

    Leiter, Cone, Alomar, Carter, Cruz Jr, Buerhle, Dosh, Estrada, Bautista, Rolen, Glaus, EE, and I'm sure there are others. These are the types of players to help push the Jays to the next level. I'm not sure if Atkins has acquired such a player through trade yet. We can rave about SWR all we want and until he reaches the show he essentially has done squat.

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    I get that Atkins is very good at using a lot of words to say nothing and is a terrible public speaker but he can't really say much else. Wheeler obviously had his sights set on Philadelphia and wasnt going to consider signing here. I think (or hope) he understands that he is probably going to have to overpay to get a good pitcher to come here.

    There's still plenty of viable options out there but if he better not only addresses the rotation with BS options because he didn't want to overlay for someone
    I guess your right as there really isn't much else to say. I've said since the beginning of the off-season it's going to take an extreme overpay to get a top FA to come to the Jays. It's hard to sell a 70 win team to a top FA without overpaying - Atkins 100% knows this or he wouldn't be the GM.

    Most of us can see it's pretty delusional to see the Jays compete in 2020 unless they hands down won the offseason, so why not just state the obvious and try to develop the kids in 2020, acquire some mid tier inning eating SP (if it's even possible) and go from there? It's pretty irritating to hear the "Yeah we tried to get him but he didn't want to come here" sob story. No crap the Jays were never in on Wheeler (or any other comparable) pitcher anyways.

    Now there is a report that the Jays have permission to sign a pitcher for 9 figures. Why bother? If your going to do it then friggin do it already!! This woulda coulda shoulda just makes you shake your head.

  4. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    If the rumours out of Chicago are true and Anthony Rizzo is available then he's a guy we should try and acquire. We'd have one of the best infields in the game.
    What would the Jays have to offer to acquire Rizzo?

  5. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    Atkins needs to make a clear slam dunk trade that is win for the Jays. I don't think it's happened yet. I'm sure we'll all be happy if Anderson puts up a 5.0 WAR this season but until Atkins makes such a trade it is hard to get excited about "winning" minor trades. I really don't care about players that post a sub 2.0 WAR because they are considered "replaceable."

    Leiter, Cone, Alomar, Carter, Cruz Jr, Buerhle, Dosh, Estrada, Bautista, Rolen, Glaus, EE, and I'm sure there are others. These are the types of players to help push the Jays to the next level. I'm not sure if Atkins has acquired such a player through trade yet. We can rave about SWR all we want and until he reaches the show he essentially has done squat.
    It hasn't and that's because names like Pillar, Morales, Happ, Hutchison, Hudson, Liriano, Leone, Diaz, Oh, Pearce, Sanchez, Biagini and so on are pretty much incapable of garnering a huge return. Those are the names that go in minor deals and that's why it's all we've seen. JD absolutely would've garnered a huge return and the book is still out on the Stroman trade. To say he's bad at making trades isn't really fair considering he's actually turned some of the above players into semi decent returns. You think a big trade should've been expected with any of the names I listed above?

    Another reason you didn't see any trades for big names yet is because the team was loaded with old, underperforming players and a loaded salary cap. A team that's hard to add to and one that a GM probably wouldn't want to add to either.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    What would the Jays have to offer to acquire Rizzo?
    No idea as of yet. If the Cubs are actually blowing it up then I imagine they'd want prospects. It's 2 years of Rizzo as well so it won't be cheap. Ideally I wouldn't want to part with Groshans but I wouldn't rule it out. Maybe....

    Jansen + Kay + Zeuch

    If Groshans were involved it'd be a 1 for 1 swap. Pearson is off limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  7. #922
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    will cost an arm and a leg to get a leader like Rizzo

  8. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    It hasn't and that's because names like Pillar, Morales, Happ, Hutchison, Hudson, Liriano, Leone, Diaz, Oh, Pearce, Sanchez, Biagini and so on are pretty much incapable of garnering a huge return. Those are the names that go in minor deals and that's why it's all we've seen. JD absolutely would've garnered a huge return and the book is still out on the Stroman trade. To say he's bad at making trades isn't really fair considering he's actually turned some of the above players into semi decent returns. You think a big trade should've been expected with any of the names I listed above?

    Another reason you didn't see any trades for big names yet is because the team was loaded with old, underperforming players and a loaded salary cap. A team that's hard to add to and one that a GM probably wouldn't want to add to either.
    Some old story from someone who constantly accuses others of that exact thing.
    We all realize the only good piece they actually TRIED to capitalize on was stroman. Thatís like the main problem.

    Regardless Reed - Based on you calling out hanton to gloat about the value of the wheeler contract, I know you can relate to this: DAMN it feels good to make a prediction about something way ahead of everyone else, and to watch it come into fruition... people slowly coming to the same realizations.

    I just wish it wasnít at the expense of me enjoying the team Iíve followed my entire life

    At least Atkins will be replaced soon. Hopefully with someone competent.

  9. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    https://bluejaysnation.com/2019/04/2...ays-clubhouse/

    Old article but kind of interesting considering Donaldson's comments today about the Jays "not wanting him back". No guarantee it was Donaldson as the ring leader but it would make a lot of sense considering the team had a load of rookies just enter the league.
    I'd bet both my left and right nut on Jose.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 12-05-2019 at 07:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'd bet both my left and right nut on Jose.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    My take on it is just that Pompey was being a big baby. Rookies have always had it hard. Donít blame others for your struggles on the actual field. Iím sure both dosh and Bautista would want nothing more than for him to have turned into a beast of a contributer.

  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    It hasn't and that's because names like Pillar, Morales, Happ, Hutchison, Hudson, Liriano, Leone, Diaz, Oh, Pearce, Sanchez, Biagini and so on are pretty much incapable of garnering a huge return. Those are the names that go in minor deals and that's why it's all we've seen. JD absolutely would've garnered a huge return and the book is still out on the Stroman trade. To say he's bad at making trades isn't really fair considering he's actually turned some of the above players into semi decent returns. You think a big trade should've been expected with any of the names I listed above?

    Another reason you didn't see any trades for big names yet is because the team was loaded with old, underperforming players and a loaded salary cap. A team that's hard to add to and one that a GM probably wouldn't want to add to either.
    Well for starters we have other FO's that are panning the Stroman trade. Tell me again who the Jays traded to get Jose Bautista? And none of the players Atkins acquired over a couple of years ago look like they'll be anything special. Even if Atkins makes a trade similar of a 2.3 WAR Adam Lind (earning $7M at that) into a 3.9 WAR Estrada would be something. Shoot even in his last full season as a Blue Jays did Kevin Pillar have a higher WAR than Lind did and Pillar was making half of Lind. I just don't think Atkins is willing to make the risky trades as his predecessor and that's fine, but you're also going to miss out on opportunities as he did by not trading Dosh or even Happ earlier.

    You have to agree that Happ and Dosh netting garbage is pretty disappointing and those were his biggest chips. As we await the Stroman trade result maybe Anderson will be the first bonafide player Atkins acquires via trade.

  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    No idea as of yet. If the Cubs are actually blowing it up then I imagine they'd want prospects. It's 2 years of Rizzo as well so it won't be cheap. Ideally I wouldn't want to part with Groshans but I wouldn't rule it out. Maybe....

    Jansen + Kay + Zeuch

    If Groshans were involved it'd be a 1 for 1 swap. Pearson is off limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    will cost an arm and a leg to get a leader like Rizzo
    So can you imagine the teams lining up to destroy a 1 for 1 swap of Groshans and Rizzo. Post this offer on the Cubs forum.



    I'm sure if the Cubs announced that the best offer they currently have on the Rizzo auction is the #73 ranked prospect Hoyer's phone would be lighting up like a Christmas tree.

    I'm thinking Jansen + Groshans + Zeuch is at the very least the starting point.

  13. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    So can you imagine the teams lining up to destroy a 1 for 1 swap of Groshans and Rizzo. Post this offer on the Cubs forum.



    I'm sure if the Cubs announced that the best offer they currently have on the Rizzo auction is the #73 ranked prospect Hoyer's phone would be lighting up like a Christmas tree.

    I'm thinking Jansen + Groshans + Zeuch is at the very least the starting point.
    seriously.....those 3 would literally be throw ins. It would take not only your top prospect but one in the top 10 +, alternatively a top prospect + Biggio - at the minimum.

  14. #929
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    Nah, it's somewhere in the middle. Rizzo doesn't play a premium position and that makes a big difference. I think you're forgetting the value of prospects has changed drastically, in the last while. Teams aren't as eager to deal them.

  15. #930
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    Yeah, because 1st basemen have loads of value now. I get that Rizzo is a great player but I doubt you'd see him traded for a kings ransom. Especially with how much value is put into prospects these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

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