The Offseason Lounge

[hanton]

#BlueJays announce they've traded right-hander Hector Perez to the Reds for a PTBNL or cash.

This frees up the 40-man spot for Springer, when that's made official.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

Yeah because AA was great at selling off prospects before people realized they sucked. Hoffman, Norris, Boyd, Castro, Marisnick, Nicollino, Hech etc. His methods were exciting but they were unsustainable. You can't field a winner if you're constantly trading prospects for guys in their 30's. There has to be a mix. The only players to actually make it to the Jays through AA's farm were Pillar, Goins, Stroman, Osuna and Sanchez. That's literally it.

Well thats what youre supposed to do eith prospects. Trade them or let them grow.

IIRC, he only had 2 stretches where he made major deals in 2012 for Marlins/Dickey and 2015 for Tulo/Price/JD and both stretches were justified. The dickey deal he shouldnt have made but I wouldnt have had a problem making a similar deal for a better player.

He either should traded prospects for MLB ready players or sold high on JB and EE and traded them for prospects instead.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

Lol ripped this from Reddit:

Fun Fact: Michael Brantley's ~2 hour Blue Jays career was more valuable than the following recent Blue Jays
Brandon Drury (-2.3 WAR)

Edwin Jackson (-1.6 WAR)

Anthony Alford (-0.7 WAR)

Socrates Brito (-0.7 WAR)

Chase Anderson (-0.5 WAR)

Shun Yamaguchi (-0.7 WAR)

Derek Fisher (-0.6 WAR)

Daniel Vogelbach (-0.1 WAR)

Richard Urena (-0.2 WAR)

Clay Buchholz (-0.4 WAR)

Clayton Richard (-0.2 WAR)

Gift Ngoepe (-0.2 WAR)

Jonathan Davis (-0.3 WAR)

Tanner Roark (-0.4 WAR)

​

We'll miss you Michael! a true Canadian baseball legend.

Never got the Vogelbach thing. Why vlaim him if thats what you gonna do. Wish we kept Alford longer but couldnt help it. Drury I hated when he was here but dont mind giving him another chance

[ChongInc.]

Well thats what youre supposed to do eith prospects. Trade them or let them grow.

IIRC, he only had 2 stretches where he made major deals in 2012 for Marlins/Dickey and 2015 for Tulo/Price/JD and both stretches were justified. The dickey deal he shouldnt have made but I wouldnt have had a problem making a similar deal for a better player.

He either should traded prospects for MLB ready players or sold high on JB and EE and traded them for prospects instead.

I think AA would have targeted a better pitcher if he had more than 10mil to spend. It was high risk/high reward.

[R. Johnson#3]

You said there has to be a mix, and then listed off the mix.

Given the scenario (ALE vulnerability), I’m glad he made the moves he did. It was the time to strike.

Atkins has been fortunate that the Sox are a dumpster fire. He’s had an extended window to operate with.

That's not a good mix though. 5 years of Atkins has given us Biggio, Bichette, Gurriel, Vladdy, Pearson, Teoscar, Romano, Tellez, Kirk along with another load of highly rated prospects. Compare those names to the 5 that I listed. It's laughable. Outside additions include Springer, Ryu and Yates. It's time to face the music my dude. Atkins is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than AA ever was.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

I think AA would have targeted a better pitcher if he had more than 10mil to spend. It was high risk/high reward.

Well regardless he messed up on dickey but the other decisions were fine even if they didnt work out.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

Paxton on our radar apparently.

Given we just saw Happ and Quintana sogn for cheap, I hope we get him for cheap or I'd pass. Rather have had those 2.

[R. Johnson#3]

Well thats what youre supposed to do eith prospects. Trade them or let them grow.

IIRC, he only had 2 stretches where he made major deals in 2012 for Marlins/Dickey and 2015 for Tulo/Price/JD and both stretches were justified. The dickey deal he shouldnt have made but I wouldnt have had a problem making a similar deal for a better player.

He either should traded prospects for MLB ready players or sold high on JB and EE and traded them for prospects instead.

I think you're missing my overall point here. My point is that AA was bad at drafting. He was good at selling off when his prospects were at their highest value. The big problem is that he traded away his best prospects and kept the worst ones. Aside from Stroman. He was god awful at evaluating talent.

You're correct in saying that he only had 2 stretches where he made major deals. Those 2 stretches came in 6 years of work though. It was all part of his process. Build up a fake farm for 3 years and sell it all off before they bust. Rinse and repeat.

[R. Johnson#3]

Paxton on our radar apparently.

Given we just saw Happ and Quintana sogn for cheap, I hope we get him for cheap or I'd pass. Rather have had those 2.

If he takes a deal similar to Happ's then I'm about it. 1 year 10 mil is the highest I'd go.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

I think you're missing my overall point here. My point is that AA was bad at drafting. He was good at selling off when his prospects were at their highest value. The big problem is that he traded away his best prospects and kept the worst ones. Aside from Stroman. He was god awful at evaluating talent.

You're correct in saying that he only had 2 stretches where he made major deals. Those 2 stretches came in 6 years of work though. It was all part of his process. Build up a fake farm for 3 years and sell it all off before they bust. Rinse and repeat.

Those are 2 separate issues IMO. You cant say he was bad at drafting then say the problem is he kept the worst prospects and traded the best. That would imply he was good at drafting but just traded them away (which we have agreed that it was during 2 major stretches).

Pretty sure we had a top 5 farm in 2011 before the Marlins/Dickey trades then was a top 10 farm again 3 years after entering the 2015 season (and this is after trading for Donaldson).

[Raps18-19 Champ]

If he takes a deal similar to Happ's then I'm about it. 1 year 10 mil is the highest I'd go.

Id we didnt have Ray Id take it but dont want both AND Pearson on the roster. Thats high risk high reward.

[R. Johnson#3]

Those are 2 separate issues IMO. You cant say he was bad at drafting then say the problem is he kept the worst prospects and traded the best. That would imply he was good at drafting but just traded them away (which we have agreed that it was during 2 major stretches).

Pretty sure we had a top 5 farm in 2011 before the Marlins/Dickey trades then was a top 10 farm again 3 years after entering the 2015 season (and this is after trading for Donaldson).

Sure I can. It's not like he drafted superstars outside of Thor. He just traded away the best players that he drafted. In no way is that saying he's good at drafting. I'm saying he's bad at evaluating talent.

[Raps18-19 Champ]

Sure I can. It's not like he drafted superstars outside of Thor. He just traded away the best players that he drafted. In no way is that saying he's good at drafting. I'm saying he's bad at evaluating talent.

But he traded most of those guys away in deals that were justified. He cant make deals and keep his best prospects at the same time.

[R. Johnson#3]

Id we didnt have Ray Id take it but dont want both AND Pearson on the roster. Thats high risk high reward.

With Ray it's more so if he'll be erratic or not. Paxton is a health issue. If he stays healthy then he'll be a solid pitcher. I agree having such volatile pitchers in your rotation is a sticky situation though. My ideal target is Tanaka.

[R. Johnson#3]

But he traded most of those guys away in deals that were justified. He cant make deals and keep his best prospects at the same time.

Trading your top 2 prospects for a 38 year old knuckleballer is never justified. That's the ultimate high stakes gamble. So is trading prospects in a deal for a pitcher who failed his physical (Josh Johnson). AA was a huge goof.