The Offseason Lounge

[R. Johnson#3]

Yes I believe they could have used that money on a player who could still be contributing now instead of old relievers. Or they could have picked them up in FA and not needed to patch those holes mid season. Guys like Benoit and grilli (I realize they were not FA before the season, but similar type talents were available) do not cost a pick to sign in FA. Yes they get limited points for putting a bandaid on that BP, but they lose more points by not starting the rebuild after that, then they gained making a couple low end trades that helped the team get into the playoffs. Those guys were never going to make a big impact in the playoffs and help us win a ship.

Okay, roughly 20 mil was spent on Liriano, Grilli and Benoit. Each of them were instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. Our bullpen was basically Osuna because Cecil **** the bed all year up until September. We also needed a 5th starter and Liriano filled that role in a great way with a 2.92 ERA. Do you honestly think they could've gotten better production out of 2 relievers and 1 starter with only 20 million to spend? Seriously? Atkins did a great job in 2016.

You say you wanted the money to be for the future though. So who were some relievers we could've signed for 20 mil or less? Keep in mind the rotation would still be in shambles considering Sanchez and Estrada sucked from 2017 on and they would need a 5th starter.

If you aren’t going to tear it down, then you should be looking to bolster it. Sitting on your hands is how you end up with a pitching staff headlined by wag, and an outfield headlined by grinch. As I said before, the window never needed to close. We would have a pretty deadly lineup if they still had dosh and enc playing with the young core. and “hypothetically” they could have picked Pearson a few picks earlier and our farm would look the exact same.
So yeah, it’s frustrating when management is giving mixed messages about the direction of the team.

I’ve said all this stuff before.

I've also said that they had no salary room to add to this team many times before yet here we are. Now in this paragraph you say the window never had to close. So I assume that would mean no chance on trading guys like Stroman and Happ on top of the names you mentioned? If so then who would we trade to extend that window? Russell Martin, Kevin Pillar, Marco Estrada, Kendrys Morales? A whole bunch of guys who sucked? You also won't let the Pearson thing die. Why would they decide not to pick the player they picked at 24 in order to pick a player they picked later? It doesn't make sense. It's Edwin or Pearson and you can't have it both ways.

At least you admit we aren’t close, and best case is 2 years from being a winning franchise. Beautifully played to burn the first 3 years of your young core /s.

This is a weird post by you because you’re basically agreeing with me, but trying to call me out about the same old **** at the same time. Not sure what you want from me but I repeated the same things I’ve said and feel all along for you, so hopefully that finally clears things up.

This off-season will determine if I have faith in Atkins going forward. If Chase Anderson is the best starter acquired then I'll be pissed. Atkins has proven that he can build an excellent farm along with turning crap players into okay prospects. This off-season is his first real shot to work on a team that's rising up as opposed to falling down. He even said this off-season will be an important one moving forward so I'm expecting stuff to happen.

Your comment about wasting the first 3 years of development is cute. I guess the Astros pissed away 6 years of Altuve and 3 of Correa before they decided to make a push. It's painfully obvious how much you miss AA because you expect things to happen immediately. Atkins isn't going to make a flurry of deals and throw a $50+ million dollar contract or 2 on top of that. He might do one of those things though. AA was exciting but he was completely reckless. Atkins is conservative and boring as hell but his approach is starting to bare fruit. He's not going to gut the farm and push this team into contention for 2020. He's working towards it though.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I agree with you but I don't. If it's about competing in 2021 then yeah but I don't think there's anything else we agree upon lol.

[LanceUpperCut]

So Odorizzi apparently said teams were reluctant because of the draft pick compensation and he really didn’t want to sit till feb. makes me believe a team offering 3y at 17-18 per probably would of signed him.
So who would of been happy with signing him to that before he had to make the QO decision?
On one hand you get a solid mid to upper rotation guy coming off a career year. Money to spend and with one upper end arm signed you can move on to adding other pieces.
Then in the other hand your losing a top 50 pick in an apparently loaded draft, some IFA money to spend, probably paying a little over market price for a guy that will be good for sure but could easily fall back to being rather average.

[ChongInc.]

Okay, roughly 20 mil was spent on Liriano, Grilli and Benoit. Each of them were instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. Our bullpen was basically Osuna because Cecil **** the bed all year up until September. We also needed a 5th starter and Liriano filled that role in a great way with a 2.92 ERA. Do you honestly think they could've gotten better production out of 2 relievers and 1 starter with only 20 million to spend? Seriously? Atkins did a great job in 2016.

He did fine for a bandaid solution.

I’m not going to comb through all of the FA signings that year for you.
However, all of those 3 players were getting paid market value from Being signed in FA. If they could afford them at the tdl, then they could have afforded similar talent in the offseason. Possibly similar talent that isn’t 35y/o+.

You say you wanted the money to be for the future though. So who were some relievers we could've signed for 20 mil or less? Keep in mind the rotation would still be in shambles considering Sanchez and Estrada sucked from 2017 on and they would need a 5th starter.

I would have much preferred they spend the money on signing a long term piece. 20m buys that in FA.

I've also said that they had no salary room to add to this team many times before yet here we are. Now in this paragraph you say the window never had to close. So I assume that would mean no chance on trading guys like Stroman and Happ on top of the names you mentioned? If so then who would we trade to extend that window? Russell Martin, Kevin Pillar, Marco Estrada, Kendrys Morales? A whole bunch of guys who sucked?

No salary room... and yet they added 20m at the deadline...

The window never had to close if they kept enc and dosh *i have been very clear about why I mean by not closing the window. I’m not sure why you keep asking this question* We would have a DEADLY lineup heading into next season. No need to make trades to bolster the team. The happ and stroman trades haven’t done anything to bolster the jays. I hope SWR does in a couple years.

The smart GM would have moved Alford back then. I know I was hoping they would. Dig up the post if you don’t believe me.

You also won't let the Pearson thing die. Why would they decide not to pick the player they picked at 24 in order to pick a player they picked later? It doesn't make sense. It's Edwin or Pearson and you can't have it both ways.

Why? There are many reasons, but the main one is that Pearson is the better of the 2 prospects. As for why they would pick warmoth before Pearson? Because they obviously didn’t think the 2 teams picking between their picks would take Pearson.

I dunno, maybe I’m giving Atkins too much credit in believing he would have picked the better of the 2 specs.

You can absolutely have it both ways. It’s a hypothetical scenario. Only Atkins knows if they would have picked Pearson if they only had one pick. I sure hope they would have.

You can dig your heels in the sand all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that Pearson was available and picked by the jays 3 picks later. If they picked him at 24, we would have pretty much the exact same farm system, and we could have had enc bashing bombs instead of morales taking a spot on the 25 man.

This off-season will determine if I have faith in Atkins going forward. If Chase Anderson is the best starter acquired then I'll be pissed. Atkins has proven that he can build an excellent farm along with turning crap players into okay prospects. This off-season is his first real shot to work on a team that's rising up as opposed to falling down. He even said this off-season will be an important one moving forward so I'm expecting stuff to happen.

Your comment about wasting the first 3 years of development is cute. I guess the Astros pissed away 6 years of Altuve and 3 of Correa before they decided to make a push. It's painfully obvious how much you miss AA because you expect things to happen immediately. Atkins isn't going to make a flurry of deals and throw a $50+ million dollar contract or 2 on top of that. He might do one of those things though. AA was exciting but he was completely reckless. Atkins is conservative and boring as hell but his approach is starting to bare fruit. He's not going to gut the farm and push this team into contention for 2020. He's working towards it though.

Yes the Astros burned 6 years of altuve and 3 years of Correa. That’s how math works.

We watched AA learn on the job. What has he done that is reckless in atl? I definitely do wish we had AA because he had vision and direction. He was also honest with fans and himself.

I’m not expecting things to happen immediately. In fact I’m not expecting things to happen at all with Atkins. I don’t think he understands what it takes to win in the ALE, and he hasn’t done anything to change my mind.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I agree with you but I don't. If it's about competing in 2021 then yeah but I don't think there's anything else we agree upon lol.

Well you said the jays won’t contend for 3 years. I agree and I think that is best case scenario. We are 19-21 pieces away from contending. We aren’t close dude. Pearson is the only potentially top end spec coming up this year. 1/21.

[mike_noodles]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/...l-manager.html

Cherington gone to Pittsburgh.

[statquo]

So Odorizzi apparently said teams were reluctant because of the draft pick compensation and he really didn’t want to sit till feb. makes me believe a team offering 3y at 17-18 per probably would of signed him.
So who would of been happy with signing him to that before he had to make the QO decision?
On one hand you get a solid mid to upper rotation guy coming off a career year. Money to spend and with one upper end arm signed you can move on to adding other pieces.
Then in the other hand your losing a top 50 pick in an apparently loaded draft, some IFA money to spend, probably paying a little over market price for a guy that will be good for sure but could easily fall back to being rather average.

I wouldn’t have been upset but would’ve cringed welcoming him to the team for that price. 17-18 mil over 3 years plus the draft pick. That’s pretty steep for Odorizzi.

[hanton]

2019 Odorizzi was no fluke and he could have gotten more on the open market regardless of what he said. So what gives?

"The righty indicated that he’s comfortable in all respects with the organization"

Reading in between the liens he wanted to stay with the Twins because his pitching coach along with his new off season training program were directly responsible for his increased velocity and new improved mechanics. So, why change?

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jake-odo...d-career-year/

HPD take note!

[ChongInc.]

2019 Odorizzi was no fluke and he could have gotten more on the open market regardless of what he said. So what gives?

"The righty indicated that he’s comfortable in all respects with the organization"

Reading in between the liens he wanted to stay with the Twins because his pitching coach along with his new off season training program were directly responsible for his increased velocity and new improved mechanics. So, why change?

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jake-odo...d-career-year/

HPD take note!

If he has another great year it will mean some big offers next season too.

[mike_noodles]

If he has another great year it will mean some big offers next season too.

And they’re not allowed to qualify him either which will help. He’s gambling on himself. I like when players do that. I also read that he’s hoping to negotiate a new deal with the Twins.

[ChongInc.]

And they’re not allowed to qualify him either which will help. He’s gambling on himself. I like when players do that. I also read that he’s hoping to negotiate a new deal with the Twins.

Can’t qualify 2 years in a row? I never knew that but it definitely makes sense.

[hanton]

Can’t qualify 2 years in a row? I never knew that but it definitely makes sense.

Yea it's a one time thing

[mike_noodles]

Yeah, I believe it was part of the latest CBA.

[Kenny Powders]

I wish the QO would just go away. It probably won't speed up the off season so it's on par with other leagues but its bound to help

[ChongInc.]

In the ATL forum they are asking for Giles for ender lol. Doesn’t seem fair at all from our perspective. Giles should get more.

[FLeays]

I wouldn’t have been upset but would’ve cringed welcoming him to the team for that price. 17-18 mil over 3 years plus the draft pick. That’s pretty steep for Odorizzi.

Yep especially the part where Lanceuppercut points out the career year. I'd rather take the money and pay Roark and Teheran and see how the Jays fare with 3 reliable pitchers in 2020 than attempt to go for it haphazardly with Odorizzi.

[hanton]

In the ATL forum they are asking for Giles for ender lol. Doesn’t seem fair at all from our perspective. Giles should get more.

Trading Giles to the Braves makes less sense now since they signed Smith. However, they could always move Smith to the 8th and Giles becomes the closer. Melancon has been ineffective so they might want to move on from him.

as for the potential trade...I don't know...sure I'd like more in return but as long as Ender is healthy the guy can play a pretty good CF