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  1. #5941
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I can agree with you on Zito. However, Zito was a completely different pitcher than Manaea. Zito was a fly ball pitcher who walked a ton of batters. Manaea is a ground ball pitcher who walks nobody. Furthermore, being a pitcher that pitches to contact you would assume hed walk more batters. The fact that Manaea manages to keep his walk rate so low while pitching to contact is pretty damn impressive. Hes a pitcher Id like to get.

    Mulder was the same pitcher when he left Oakland. He just got hurt after 1 season and retired shortly after. Brett Anderson just always gets hurt.
    I agree manaea is a hell of a pitcher.

  2. #5942
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  3. #5943
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Good to see!

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  4. #5944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    You mean Ramirez?

    I like Marte so I'm down as well but he's probably gonna cost a top 100 so not sure if FO will do it.
    Yeah I meant Ramirez, had a brain fart. I'd do a deal around Groshans in a heartbeat for Marte though it'll cost more then just him

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  5. #5945
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I think if youre trading for Ramirez, Biggio is part of the deal.
    Yeah that's fair but I think if you do a deal for Ramirez, centred around Kirk + Biggio they could do a deal for Marte that was centred around Groshans and probably get it done with out including Moreno, Martinez or Beltre

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  6. #5946
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Agreed we can fill 2b internally for sure.
    Yeah if push comes to shove, Espinal should be able to provide excellent defense at second and hopefully he can replicate his this past season, next year

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  7. #5947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Yeah I meant Ramirez, had a brain fart. I'd do a deal around Groshans in a heartbeat for Marte though it'll cost more then just him

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    So would I. It's definitely taking 4 top 100 prospects for Ramirez and Marte. Depending on the rest of the team Id do it. But i dont know if Id do 1 trade without the other. If we can get both I probably would if we can sort out the pitching first (maybe trade Teo or LGJ for a starter) if we cant sign anyone.

  8. #5948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    So would I. It's definitely taking 4 top 100 prospects for Ramirez and Marte. Depending on the rest of the team Id do it. But i dont know if Id do 1 trade without the other. If we can get both I probably would if we can sort out the pitching first (maybe trade Teo or LGJ for a starter) if we cant sign anyone.
    You wouldn't do a trade for Ramirez now without a Marte trade? I'd like both but I'm being greedy lol. I'd do one without the other in a heartbeat, though but I fear they may strike out in the FA SP market and will be forced to trade for a SP instead of trading for Ramirez. That's why I hope we can re-sign Ray. That opens up a trade for Ramirez.

    I wouldn't be opposed to selling high on Teoscars either for another good rotation piece.

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    Last edited by Kenny Powders; 11-25-2021 at 08:16 PM.

  9. #5949
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    You guys arent worried about the rotation moving forward? These proposals to unload the farm to solidify the lineup makes sense of this is a one and done attempt, but Im super worried about the pitching this season, and in the future. We dont have any arms coming up at all.

    I want to have the best lineup the league has ever seen as much as the next guy, but Im concerned the pitching will ultimately hold them back.

  10. #5950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    You wouldn't do a trade for Ramirez now without a Marte trade? I'd like both but I'm being greedy lol. I'd do one without the other in a heartbeat, though but I fear they may strike out in the FA SP market and will be forced to trade for a SP instead of trading for Ramirez. That's why I hope we can re-sign Ray. That opens up a trade for Ramirez.

    I wouldn't be opposed to selling high on Teoscars either for another good rotation piece.

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    I suppose itll depend on the asking price and the roster at that time. If its Moreno and Martinez for Ramirez and we dont have anything else, Id probably wonder if the timing was right. Similar to the Berrios situation. I wasnt thrilled at what we gave up for jist 1 trade but wpuldve been fine shelling out prospects if it was 2 trades. The Berrios trade worked out given we got an extension though.

    If we resign Ray and trade for Ramirez (to effectively replace Semien), Id still feel like a piece is missing. So Id need 1 more to feel like we are upgrading from last year. Whether thats a Marte trade or maybe a FA (Rodon at 1 year or Chris Taylor, etc).

  11. #5951
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I can agree with you on Zito. However, Zito was a completely different pitcher than Manaea. Zito was a fly ball pitcher who walked a ton of batters. Manaea is a ground ball pitcher who walks nobody. Furthermore, being a pitcher that pitches to contact you would assume hed walk more batters. The fact that Manaea manages to keep his walk rate so low while pitching to contact is pretty damn impressive. Hes a pitcher Id like to get.

    Mulder was the same pitcher when he left Oakland. He just got hurt after 1 season and retired shortly after. Brett Anderson just always gets hurt.
    I highly doubt it. I've seen a lot of guys fall for that before. Think a pitcher in pitchers park be same guy at Rogers. Doesn't work that way. Manaea is Matz caliber at Rogers.

    Chapman I would take a flyer on though. Both Semien and Donaldson excelled here. Good chance Chapman is a 7 WAR here. With his glove and power. If we can cut good deal on Chapman that is.

  12. #5952
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Sucks to lose Matz, but good for him for getting a 4 year deal as a #3/#4 SP. They were hoping he would be their #5 again behind Ray, Berrios, Ryu and Manoah. I think they can find a 4ish ERA over 150 IP elsewhere for much cheaper.

    What if instead of spending on Ray, Semien and Matz, they spend the money meant for Matz in a trade for Jose Ramirez? They could afford to send something like Biggio, Groshans and Otto Lopez the other way if they already had Semien locked down since their infield would be locked in for the next 2 years (or longer if they extend Ramirez once he's here) . I think Ramirez would fit in perfectly with this core at 3B and in the middle of all our right handed bats since he's a switch hitter. Another veteran all-star to go with Springer and Semien(hopefully) and lead this group not only in, but deep into the playoffs.

    I can handle a rotation of Ray, Berrios, Ryu, Manoah and one of Pearson/Hatch/Logue/Francis. That would still be a very solid top 4.....and Logue and Francis were both just added to the 40 man. I think Pearson is better served as a reliever, but they could also make him a SP that still tries to throw 100mph for as long as he can instead of dialing it back to an average MLB fastball with no movement. I think he has enough in the tank to give them 5IP maxed out every 5 days. If not make him a dominant multi inning set up man.
    I don't know? You don't have much depth in that rotation of yours. Plus I take it you are not adding to the pen? Could be disaster

  13. #5953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
    I highly doubt it. I've seen a lot of guys fall for that before. Think a pitcher in pitchers park be same guy at Rogers. Doesn't work that way. Manaea is Matz caliber at Rogers.

    Chapman I would take a flyer on though. Both Semien and Donaldson excelled here. Good chance Chapman is a 7 WAR here. With his glove and power. If we can cut good deal on Chapman that is.
    Didnt people think Estrada was going to get pounded in a hitters park as well? Manaeas home/road splits are basically identical. On the road his ERA increases by 0.04 and his WHIP decreases by 0.68. I think hed be fine pitching in any park.

    Im hesitant on Chapman. His numbers have been trending in the wrong direction.

  14. #5954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I suppose itll depend on the asking price and the roster at that time. If its Moreno and Martinez for Ramirez and we dont have anything else, Id probably wonder if the timing was right. Similar to the Berrios situation. I wasnt thrilled at what we gave up for jist 1 trade but wpuldve been fine shelling out prospects if it was 2 trades. The Berrios trade worked out given we got an extension though.

    If we resign Ray and trade for Ramirez (to effectively replace Semien), Id still feel like a piece is missing. So Id need 1 more to feel like we are upgrading from last year. Whether thats a Marte trade or maybe a FA (Rodon at 1 year or Chris Taylor, etc).
    I don't think we will have to give up either, and maybe I'm just being optimistic. You centre a deal around Kirk and/or Biggio + Groshans and that should be a good starting point. Even if we can't sign Ray, I'd take Rodon and Gray in a heartbeat.

    I actually am not as worried about the rotation as others. We have both Berrios and Manoah for a full season and if you can get Ray or a combo of pitchers like Rodon/Gray and that's very good rotation. Probably the best in the division as it stands now and better then the rotation the two teams who made it to the WS had.

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  15. #5955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    I don't think we will have to give up either, and maybe I'm just being optimistic. You centre a deal around Kirk and/or Biggio + Groshans and that should be a good starting point. Even if we can't sign Ray, I'd take Rodon and Gray in a heartbeat.

    I actually am not as worried about the rotation as others. We have both Berrios and Manoah for a full season and if you can get Ray or a combo of pitchers like Rodon/Gray and that's very good rotation. Probably the best in the division as it stands now and better then the rotation the two teams who made it to the WS had.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
    I think if it was Kirk and Grosh that wpuld be cheap enough to get him without other assurance. Though it did cost us Martin and SWR for Berrios so I was trying to top that prospect package.

    I dont know if Gray does it for me. He wasnt fairly good last year and he pitched worse away from Coors. He'd be a Matz equivalent for me. Id want an upgrade from Matz to make it worthwhile.

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