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  1. #3511
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Wow, they fired Mike Wilner!?
    What the actual ****? He’s the best they had. Possibly the only good they had.

  2. #3512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    What happens if those 1 year deals happen to have been good so far? It's not ideal to sign 1 year deals, but it probably is more meaningful when you focus on the value you are bringing in, not the long term deals you get. Which means, it's ultimately on a case by case basis.

    I mean I much rather the Blue Jays sign Ray for 1 year deal instead of signing a guy like Gausman to 3 years.
    Even if some of the 1 year deals have been good so far it still doesn't account for anything because they're gone at the end of the season. The hole that they were filling needs to be filled once again. I've said before that if he only did it for one off-season then that would be acceptable. Disappointing but acceptable. The fact that he's done it for 3 years in a row shows he's incapable of landing big name free agents. Couple that with his known inability to draft and you have a lousy GM. It's very possible Freeman is in a different uniform in 2022. My hope is that it's a Jays uniform

    I too would rather have Ray at 1 year over Gausman at 3 years. You know what I'd rather have over both of those guys? Masahiro Tanaka on a 3 year deal. That's the point I'm getting at. Good pitchers. I've never once said I want Atkins to sign B level pitchers but if he's going to then yeah obviously I want them to be 1 year deals because they aren't that good. I don't even know what you're trying to get at here? Just because AA can only sign second tier pitchers doesn't mean that's what I want Atkins to do. He just signed Ryu last off-season who finished 3rd in Cy Young voting while your boy signed Cole Hamels. If Ray is the best pitcher Atkins signs this off-season then I'll be pissed.



    I believe we were a $100-110 mil payroll in 2020 (prior to adjusted pandemic numbers). I think a 20-30%ish increase from that is probably reasonable, which would put us around $130-ish (which is probably on the higher end of some estimates I've seen other sites use).

    So probably enough to sign only 1 star (ie Springer/DJ, etc) and a few supporting cast (ie should probably get an still have a hole to fill in the infield/outfield/rotation and we should shore up the bullpen). If we got Springer, Wong, Walker, and a few other small pieces (the Shaw and Yamaguchi of the world for $2-5 mil each), that should bring us to close to that number.
    https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-.../payroll/2021/

    If Shaw is non-tendered that puts us at 70 million total. So by your numbers we'd have roughly 60 million to spend. Not too far off from when you tried to throw 70 million in my mouth eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  3. #3513
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    What the actual ****? He’s the best they had. Possibly the only good they had.
    Scott MacArthur isn't bad. Granted I didn't listen to any Jays radio in 2020 but I liked how he did the post game show in 2019. Wilner was awesome though. Not a fan of this move.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #3514
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Scott MacArthur isn't bad. Granted I didn't listen to any Jays radio in 2020 but I liked how he did the post game show in 2019. Wilner was awesome though. Not a fan of this move.
    Has any explanation been provided?

  5. #3515
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Has any explanation been provided?
    Nothing that I've found so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #3516
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Even if some of the 1 year deals have been good so far it still doesn't account for anything because they're gone at the end of the season. The hole that they were filling needs to be filled once again. I've said before that if he only did it for one off-season then that would be acceptable. Disappointing but acceptable. The fact that he's done it for 3 years in a row shows he's incapable of landing big name free agents. Couple that with his known inability to draft and you have a lousy GM. It's very possible Freeman is in a different uniform in 2022. My hope is that it's a Jays uniform
    Im still a little confused. So I get that LT deals promotes stability and that you are more likely to add good players. With rentals, you play a high risk game because you turn them over a lot From an approach perspective. I see why someone doesnt want that. Its extremely risky.

    From a results perspective, the Braves hasnt missed a beat, thanks in part to those 1 year deals for 3 years in a row now. As risky as it was, he made it work.

    I get he needs to sign a LT deal to promote stability because your luck will run out. But that doesnt mean hes failed in what hes done so far up to this point. It would be best to probably try to encourage him to eventually provide some stability but to outright criticize him for what hes done isnt really appropriate either. He hasnt failed at anything. He just played a risky game but made it work.

    Fyi, im concerned about these moves. I get you want to push the agenda hes a bad gm but thats not the discussion here. Go have that discussion somewhere else.

    I too would rather have Ray at 1 year over Gausman at 3 years. You know what I'd rather have over both of those guys? Masahiro Tanaka on a 3 year deal. That's the point I'm getting at. Good pitchers. I've never once said I want Atkins to sign B level pitchers but if he's going to then yeah obviously I want them to be 1 year deals because they aren't that good. I don't even know what you're trying to get at here?
    LT deals =/= good value.

    Just because AA can only sign second tier pitchers doesn't mean that's what I want Atkins to do. He just signed Ryu last off-season who finished 3rd in Cy Young voting while your boy signed Cole Hamels. If Ray is the best pitcher Atkins signs this off-season then I'll be pissed.
    Thats probably because you have an all or nothing mentality. Should I get emotional because Atkins didnt sign a star player? I would be disappointed if we were outbid on Tanaka (which happens as teams get outbid), but I would be even more pissed off if they make a bad decision.

    Its not ultimately about signing star or second tier pitchers. Its about finding good value. If I can get more value from non star players or bounce back candidates instead of stars, im comfortable with that (obviously there should be something that should indicate this). Stars can help indicate value, but dont let emotions or preconceived notions (ie i need to offer LT deals to get good players)

    Fyi. If you want to discuss and want to act like your being “civil” and “providing well thought out discussion,” probably not wise to make condescending and cheeky remarks. Not sure how AA is my “boy”. This isnt an Atkins vs AA discussion.

    https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-.../payroll/2021/

    If Shaw is non-tendered that puts us at 70 million total. So by your numbers we'd have roughly 60 million to spend. Not too far off from when you tried to throw 70 million in my mouth eh?
    Well if we are currently $60 mil and we add $70 mil, thats $130 mil in payroll. $130 mil less $110 mil is $20 mil. That means we added $25 mil in payroll from last year.

    The $70 mil I brought up was probably because someone referred to us as being a $170 mil payroll a few years ago, but to get there will probably be incremental (ie 110 to 135 to 155 to 175 or something like that).

    Hence why I probably didnt think it was realistic to add Bauer+springer+lindor. If that wasnt clear before I hope this clarifies it.
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 11-27-2020 at 05:58 PM.

  7. #3517
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    What the actual ****? He’s the best they had. Possibly the only good they had.
    They may have put themselves in a situation by moving him to play by play. He’s not very good at it. He was better in the update/Jays Talk role. Maybe they’re just looking to find Wagner a look term partner.

    Edit. Twitterverse says that’s exactly what they’re doing. Ben gonna call all 9 and they’ll bring in a on experienced MLB color guy. Like the idea. Jay’s broadcasts have been mostly crappy since Jerry retired.
    Last edited by mike_noodles; 11-27-2020 at 11:09 PM.

  8. #3518
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    They may have put themselves in a situation by moving him to play by play. He’s not very good at it. He was better in the update/Jays Talk role. Maybe they’re just looking to find Wagner a look term partner.

    Edit. Twitterverse says that’s exactly what they’re doing. Ben gonna call all 9 and they’ll bring in a on experienced MLB color guy. Like the idea. Jay’s broadcasts have been mostly crappy since Jerry retired.
    Give them tabby and Dan can stay on the tv broadcast FT

  9. #3519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Give them tabby and Dan can stay on the tv broadcast FT
    Tabby is the one who needs to go. Dude should read bedtime stories.

  10. #3520
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    Ben Wagner is very underrated, he's really good - if I could I'd watch the games and listen on the radio but it won't sync up. Scott MacArthur is another smart baseball mind.

    Dan and Buck are fantastic but I guess Dan goes back to ESPN for next season and makes a few cameos like he did in 2019. Tabler sucks

  11. #3521
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    Jays looking at Richards.

    I see the upside but given how much our pen was used last year, I prefer someone more durable.

  12. #3522
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Ben Wagner is very underrated, he's really good - if I could I'd watch the games and listen on the radio but it won't sync up. Scott MacArthur is another smart baseball mind.

    Dan and Buck are fantastic but I guess Dan goes back to ESPN for next season and makes a few cameos like he did in 2019. Tabler sucks
    I like Wagner too. Hopefully Dan does some of both for us still. He’s the best there currently is in all of baseball I think.

  13. #3523
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I like Wagner too. Hopefully Dan does some of both for us still. He’s the best there currently is in all of baseball I think.
    I believe he's still under contract to do some Jays games in 2021 - similar to 2019. His twitter profile still has "Blue Jays on Sportsnet".

  14. #3524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Jays looking at Richards.

    I see the upside but given how much our pen was used last year, I prefer someone more durable.
    I really wonder what Hand would cost.

  15. #3525
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    Quote Originally Posted by town123 View Post
    I really wonder what Hand would cost.
    I don't think we'll sign Hand but he'll probably get $7-12 mil per year. Maybe $24 mil/3 years? No one is probably sending big on relievers given that the season may be shortened.

    We probably do need to get someone for the bullpen though. I'd take a crack at Rosenthal.

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