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  1. #4966
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    playing off this idea, rather than this I would like the following:

    Fried as the centerpiece, one of Pache or Waters as a second piece, Wilson a third AND Inciarte. I am viewing Inciarte as a negative and a reason the Cubs get more. I do not understand how anyone can consider Inciarte a positive. If the Cubs have to add something like a guy near the bottom of their top 30, I am ok with that. But to me this has to be a sort of return. And if they don't get that or better, then keep KB. I am not at all opposed to that. I think they can win in 2020, without making a major deal.
    I think getting 2 from that top tier is going to be tough. Wilson is right in between the top 2 tiers for me. Maybe too good as a secondary with a top tier player and not good enough to be the lead piece.

    I think there will be a market. I donít think theyíll get multiple top 30-50 prospects, but they should get 1 + other good pieces. Philly is after Rendon, Washington, Atlanta, LA, Texas all want to address 3b. Maybe LAA and others get involved. Donaldson is probably going to get 4 years in this 3b market. Rendon will get either the mega deal or the short term huge AAV deal depending on what he wants. There should be a market for Bryant. If not, keep him and add.

  2. #4967
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I like the first one. But because we don't need to trade our star third baseman, I'm not making the deal without, Fried, and two from the group of, Anderson, Wright, Waters, or Pache. I'd rather keep KB than sell him short for the sake of making a trade.
    Thatís not gonna happen.

    I was trying to say 1 player from each of the 3 groups.

  3. #4968
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    I think getting 2 from that top tier is going to be tough. Wilson is right in between the top 2 tiers for me. Maybe too good as a secondary with a top tier player and not good enough to be the lead piece.

    I think there will be a market. I donít think theyíll get multiple top 30-50 prospects, but they should get 1 + other good pieces. Philly is after Rendon, Washington, Atlanta, LA, Texas all want to address 3b. Maybe LAA and others get involved. Donaldson is probably going to get 4 years in this 3b market. Rendon will get either the mega deal or the short term huge AAV deal depending on what he wants. There should be a market for Bryant. If not, keep him and add.
    100% agree. But that is why I added Inciarte. He is a negative. And maybe the Cubs add an asset. Not a high level one. That said, I 100% agree with you that if you don't get what you want keep him and try winning NOW.

  4. #4969
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    This is interesting to me. In one post several pages back you agreed with me that some fans overvalue Cubs players. And now this is exactly what you are doing. There is not a chance at this sort of return. Basically just say you don't want to trade KB. Yet, you are also the one who is very excited for this off season and trades to be made. Your views are very contradictory.
    I'm one of those fan!!! Of course I think our players are better than their players. I'm a fan. But as a GM, I may feel differently, knowing that I have to look at it objectively. But since I'm a fan, I want the Cubs to rake whoever they deal with across the coals. And if they can't, no deal.

    It's like this. I want to trade KB if it can help us today and down the road. I don't want to trade KB if we are just trading him for the sole purpose of knowing he's walking in two years. I would rather they spend more money and fix this team

    Spending more money is not likely according to reports and speculations though.

  5. #4970
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Thatís not gonna happen.

    I was trying to say 1 player from each of the 3 groups.
    In that case, keep KB and add.

    Thought. The Angels need a third baseman, and some SP. What about KB and Q (almost 30 mil saved) for Canning, Adel, and maybe a Soriano type of guy? Maybe Marsh is added to the deal?

  6. #4971
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I'm one of those fan!!! Of course I think our players are better than their players. I'm a fan. But as a GM, I may feel differently, knowing that I have to look at it objectively. But since I'm a fan, I want the Cubs to rake whoever they deal with across the coals. And if they can't, no deal.

    It's like this. I want to trade KB if it can help us today and down the road. I don't want to trade KB if we are just trading him for the sole purpose of knowing he's walking in two years. I would rather they spend more money and fix this team

    Spending more money is not likely according to reports and speculations though.
    However, when you commented on how exciting the off season will be you suggested you were excited because of all the new talent that will be coming in. I guess I would agree with you if they can get the returns you woudl want. But in reality those returns are not happening. Are you still going to be excited if the Cubs got what you might consider (with your fan hat on) 60 cents on the dollar for KB. Because, in truth, with the GM hat on, that might be what they get compared to your fan hat perspective.
    BTW, this is why I said I am worried or nervous about this off season. I do not want 60% of my fan expectation for KB or Willy. I would rather just keep them and win now. Besides being concerned about the Cubs not having enough to spend to win next year keeping the core players together, I am also concerned about the idea of them trading core players because of the fear of not getting enough.

  7. #4972
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    However, when you commented on how exciting the off season will be you suggested you were excited because of all the new talent that will be coming in. I guess I would agree with you if they can get the returns you woudl want. But in reality those returns are not happening. Are you still going to be excited if the Cubs got what you might consider (with your fan hat on) 60 cents on the dollar for KB. Because, in truth, with the GM hat on, that might be what they get compared to your fan hat perspective.
    BTW, this is why I said I am worried or nervous about this off season. I do not want 60% of my fan expectation for KB or Willy. I would rather just keep them and win now. Besides being concerned about the Cubs not having enough to spend to win next year keeping the core players together, I am also concerned about the idea of them trading core players because of the fear of not getting enough.
    For me it's absolutely exciting at looking at the potential trade possibilities. It's exciting for me to see new blood on this team. It's not exciting however to see these things happen if the Cubs don't win these trades in a huge way.

    Like I said earlier, we have all the leverage. And when KB and Willy are the only third baseman and catchers left, we have even more leverage. We already have these stars. They're ours. We don't have to trade our stars. If somebody wants them, it should be on our terms, or we keep them.

    It should take a monster package to get these guys. We should all be excited knowing that we won the trade for now, and in the future.

  8. #4973
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    2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    In that case, keep KB and add.

    Thought. The Angels need a third baseman, and some SP. What about KB and Q (almost 30 mil saved) for Canning, Adel, and maybe a Soriano type of guy? Maybe Marsh is added to the deal?
    Adell and Canning and Marsh and an interesting lotto ticket arm? I think you are going to be so disappointed.

    I think KBs surplus value is worth a 55-60 FV lead piece and then some interesting additional pieces. Maybe you get a league average mlb player with 3-4 years control left or a back end top 100 guy or a high upside super far away player as the secondary. Maybe. Adell is a 65 FV alone. Canning is mlb level already. Marsh might be ranked top 50 on some lists, too 75 on others.
    Last edited by CP_414; 12-06-2019 at 06:05 PM.

  9. #4974
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Adell and Canning and Marsh and an interesting lotto ticket arm? I think you are going to be so disappointed.

    I think KBs surplus value is worth a 55-60 FV lead piece and then some interesting additional pieces. Maybe you get a league average mlb player with 3-4 years control left or a back end top 100 guy or a high upside super far away player as the secondary. Maybe. Adell is a 65. Canning is mlb level already. Marsh might be too 50 on some lists, too 75 on others.
    If I'm Theo, and the offers are disappointing, I stand pat. If I'm blown away, I'm pulling the trigger is a second.

    We don't need to trade anybody.

    I don't know how to figure surplus value, so I can't hold a conversation with you about that.

  10. #4975
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    2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    If I'm Theo, and the offers are disappointing, I stand pat. If I'm blown away, I'm pulling the trigger is a second.

    We don't need to trade anybody.

    I don't know how to figure surplus value, so I can't hold a conversation with you about that.
    Iím on board with keeping this core and adding to them. Youíve been pushing for trades, but I think your expectations of whatís coming back probably arenít very realistic.

    Of all the made up media trades for Bryant this offseason, I think Jung and Winn might best reflect what they can get back. Top 50 player who will probably rise in rankings this year and make mlb by early 2021 and a 1st round player with a ton of talent but raw and far away. Maybe itíll be a different team and different players but thatís the value range. One top 30-50 prospect who is getting pretty close, 1 still unranked or back end top 100 big upside guy, maybe 1 averageish mlb player.

  11. #4976
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    So Hoerner, Amaya, and Happ should fetch us Betts or Lindor?

  12. #4977
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfoley89 View Post
    So Hoerner, Amaya, and Happ should fetch us Betts or Lindor?
    Hell. That can net us Trout AND Ohtani!

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  13. #4978
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Iím on board with keeping this core and adding to them. Youíve been pushing for trades, but I think your expectations of whatís coming back probably arenít very realistic.

    Of all the made up media trades for Bryant this offseason, I think Jung and Winn might best reflect what they can get back. Top 50 player who will probably rise in rankings this year and make mlb by early 2021 and a 1st round player with a ton of talent but raw and far away. Maybe itíll be a different team and different players but thatís the value range. One top 30-50 prospect who is getting pretty close, 1 still unranked or back end top 100 big upside guy, maybe 1 averageish mlb player.
    I think the only suggestion I saw that was a bit high or at least what many would hope to get, was the one a week or so ago. I think the trade scenario was May, Ruiz and a SS in the Dodgers system. I think it was Jeter. Those 3 for KB. That gave me some hope that offers might be enticing. Havenít seem much since.

  14. #4979
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Iím on board with keeping this core and adding to them. Youíve been pushing for trades, but I think your expectations of whatís coming back probably arenít very realistic.

    Of all the made up media trades for Bryant this offseason, I think Jung and Winn might best reflect what they can get back. Top 50 player who will probably rise in rankings this year and make mlb by early 2021 and a 1st round player with a ton of talent but raw and far away. Maybe itíll be a different team and different players but thatís the value range. One top 30-50 prospect who is getting pretty close, 1 still unranked or back end top 100 big upside guy, maybe 1 averageish mlb player.
    I have no idea how GM's figure out what's fair, or what a player's surplus value is. So the only way that I know is, to make sure we get more in return than we're giving up. Not in every trade, but when two all stars are on the market, we better be winning this deal, or it's not being made.

  15. #4980
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I think the only suggestion I saw that was a bit high or at least what many would hope to get, was the one a week or so ago. I think the trade scenario was May, Ruiz and a SS in the Dodgers system. I think it was Jeter. Those 3 for KB. That gave me some hope that offers might be enticing. Havenít seem much since.
    I donít think theyíd get close to that. Thatís 3 top 100s, 2 of them top 30ish, May would arguably be top 10 today.

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