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  1. #1621
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    2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutPunch33 View Post
    I wold separate player development with drafting.

    I agree, they've done an exceptional job at player development.

    But IMO, they've done a really poor job at drafting. Their only notable draft pick was KB, who was an obvious choice when he fell to them because most thought the Astros would snag him.

    I understand that the draft is a crapshoot, but the decisions you make after that aren't. There's no reason why Albert Almora should be on a Major League roster, let alone on the Cubs roster. The only explanation is that they persistently refuse to admit that they were wrong about him, that he's a bust, and that he shouldn't be playing.

    They've had several years to correct several mistakes (Schwarber, Almora, Happ) and so far, nothing.
    Itís just not true that theyíve done a really poor job drafting. Bryant was not the obvious pick, a lot of people wanted Jon Gray. It was close to 50/50. Your anti-Schwarber bias aside, he has been a very good pick. Heís not close to being a mistake. The Schwarber pick also allowed them to draft and overslot Cease, another good pick that same draft and Schwarber is a solidly above average mlb starter. The Happ pick was in a really poor draft year and heís been one of the most productive picks at his spot or later in the round. He was a fine pick. The 2016 draft was killed by free agent signings. Cant blame their drafting for that one. 2017 was probably the worst draft of their tenure. Thereís a couple players from that draft who could make it in 2020 (Abbott and Thompson), but not a ton of upside. Nico seems like he was a very good pick. Same with several others from 2018. Too soon to judge 2019 either way.

    I believe Almora will be gone. Happ and Schwarber will be on this roster or another one because they belong on a roster. They werenít mistakes.
    Last edited by CP_414; 10-18-2019 at 02:00 PM.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I really don't mind if that's the point, honestly. What it signals is that the main group of players will remain the main group of players for the time being if that's the case. Which I'm happy about. I think the supplemental players, not the "core" guys are the issues with the team right now. It would make me a little more confident that the goal is 2020 and not 2021 or 2020. It might be short sighted, but realistically, managerial hires aren't for the next decade...at times they're for the next three years. Few managers go that long with a team.

    I still think Espada is more the guy I like, but I don't know Ross like the FO knows Ross.
    Exactly what I think..
    If Ross returns, then we will see these main guys all returning in..
    Contreras Rizzo Baez Bryant Schwarber and Heyward and obviously Lester and Hendricks

    All guys Ross played with here and is familiar with, which I'm sure the hope would be that they would up their game to that next level with incentives to play well for him, kinda like they did in 2016 when they had that win it all for grandpa rossy mentality when he was retiring..

    I believe the front office is still looking to win now and so much worried about retooling the system yet..
    Why the changes will be finding that CFer/2Bmen, upgrading the depth , and strengthening the bullpen..

    If they spend big money on someone, it will probably be Cole that they try for, which would be Theo original plan with pitching.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Exactly what I think..
    If Ross returns, then we will see these main guys all returning in..
    Contreras Rizzo Baez Bryant Schwarber and Heyward and obviously Lester and Hendricks

    All guys Ross played with here and is familiar with, which I'm sure the hope would be that they would up their game to that next level with incentives to play well for him, kinda like they did in 2016 when they had that win it all for grandpa rossy mentality when he was retiring..

    I believe the front office is still looking to win now and so much worried about retooling the system yet..
    Why the changes will be finding that CFer/2Bmen, upgrading the depth , and strengthening the bullpen..

    If they spend big money on someone, it will probably be Cole that they try for, which would be Theo original plan with pitching.
    Ross being manager doesnít mean that they wonít make any changes with the core. Thatís a pretty big stretch. I donít think theyíll blow it up, but 1 or 2 of those guys could be moved regardless of who the manager will be.

    Iíd love Cole, but he has a West Coast preference and will be comfortably above $200 mil. The Cubs probably canít make that fit.

  4. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Exactly what I think..
    If Ross returns, then we will see these main guys all returning in..
    Contreras Rizzo Baez Bryant Schwarber and Heyward and obviously Lester and Hendricks

    All guys Ross played with here and is familiar with, which I'm sure the hope would be that they would up their game to that next level with incentives to play well for him, kinda like they did in 2016 when they had that win it all for grandpa rossy mentality when he was retiring..

    I believe the front office is still looking to win now and so much worried about retooling the system yet..
    Why the changes will be finding that CFer/2Bmen, upgrading the depth , and strengthening the bullpen..

    If they spend big money on someone, it will probably be Cole that they try for, which would be Theo original plan with pitching.
    I don't necessarily think that Ross here = no big changes. Only that if the Cubs main reason for hiring Ross is his interactions with the players on this roster, than it'd be weird for them to make big changes with those players. They very well may hire Ross for another reason.

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I don't necessarily think that Ross here = no big changes. Only that if the Cubs main reason for hiring Ross is his interactions with the players on this roster, than it'd be weird for them to make big changes with those players. They very well may hire Ross for another reason.
    That the thing though..

    Wouldn't you think his first year that they would let him try and win with the main core guys from that 2016 team that he connects with and are a solid, good core group..

    The "big" changes could come from other areas of the team..

    SP or two, bullpen, CF, 2B, bullpen

    They dont necessary have to break up that group this offseason, especially if they feel Ross can bring them to that next level of play with his ways of getting the best out of players

    Just a thought

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    That the thing though..

    Wouldn't you think his first year that they would let him try and win with the main core guys from that 2016 team that he connects with and are a solid, good core group..

    The "big" changes could come from other areas of the team..

    SP or two, bullpen, CF, 2B, bullpen

    They dont necessary have to break up that group this offseason, especially if they feel Ross can bring them to that next level of play with his ways of getting the best out of players

    Just a thought
    Not necessarily. No. It depends on what the reasoning for his hire is, if he's the guy. Maybe they just like the way he connects with players in general. Not that it's *these* players. Maybe they like his perceived game strategy. Or how he works with the FO. There's a multitude of situations where you can sign Ross and still make a major change or two.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Ross being manager doesnít mean that they wonít make any changes with the core. Thatís a pretty big stretch. I donít think theyíll blow it up, but 1 or 2 of those guys could be moved regardless of who the manager will be.

    Iíd love Cole, but he has a West Coast preference and will be comfortably above $200 mil. The Cubs probably canít make that fit.
    Cubs can make any amount of money fit, the question is, would they want to do it...

    Though I do think Cole may stay in Houston, I think Houston will make him a solid offer considering they will be losing both Verlander and Greinke after 2021...

  8. #1628
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    i donít expect any manager to take this current group to a championship. If they think Ross would do that its a complete failure of an offseason. I still am under the impression the roster was the biggest issue. They need to give Ross or whoever the manager is multiple significant upgrades IMO. We need to stop blindly believing in this core, they have had 3 additional seasons since the championship and have not risen to the needed level. A 4th season with a new manager is the same as changing the pitching coach every year, wishful thinking. Start fixing the holes in the roster.

  9. #1629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvaged Ship View Post
    i donít expect any manager to take this current group to a championship. If they think Ross would do that its a complete failure of an offseason. I still am under the impression the roster was the biggest issue. They need to give Ross or whoever the manager is multiple significant upgrades IMO. We need to stop blindly believing in this core, they have had 3 additional seasons since the championship and have not risen to the needed level. A 4th season with a new manager is the same as changing the pitching coach every year, wishful thinking. Start fixing the holes in the roster.
    They're not dumb enough to think the manager makes them a champion. Of course the roster is the biggest issue. Baseball is all about the roster. It's just easier to make changes on the fringes since you're dealing with a lot less money.

  10. #1630
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    And changes on the fringes can and do help! Just not enough to make them a powerhouse.

  11. #1631
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    2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Cubs can make any amount of money fit, the question is, would they want to do it...

    Though I do think Cole may stay in Houston, I think Houston will make him a solid offer considering they will be losing both Verlander and Greinke after 2021...
    They arenít going over the top tax tier line. We can dream all we want. We can complain all we want. They arenít going to do it. The question is if theyíll go over the 2nd tier again or the first tier or neither.
    Last edited by CP_414; 10-18-2019 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp View Post
    They're not dumb enough to think the manager makes them a champion. Of course the roster is the biggest issue. Baseball is all about the roster. It's just easier to make changes on the fringes since you're dealing with a lot less money.
    Right. Itís amazing that this still needs to be said. They know they need some roster changes. They arenít just going to switch managers and run the same 25 out there. If they do, theyíll get about the same results. The player changes come later in the offseason, the manager change comes first.

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Cubs can make any amount of money fit, the question is, would they want to do it...

    Though I do think Cole may stay in Houston, I think Houston will make him a solid offer considering they will be losing both Verlander and Greinke after 2021...
    They are not going to go over the top luxury tax tier. I think in a best case scenario they top out at 235 ( same as this year ) . Only way that they may be able to fit Cole is by trading Bryant .


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


    El Mago

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dfan25 View Post
    They are not going to go over the top luxury tax tier. I think in a best case scenario they top out at 235 ( same as this year ) . Only way that they may be able to fit Cole is by trading Bryant .


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
    I'm not saying they will or wont, just saying that they can if they wanted too..

    There really nothing keeping them from going over the high threshold other then that they dont want to spend that extra money in penalties..

  15. #1635
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Right. Itís amazing that this still needs to be said. They know they need some roster changes. They arenít just going to switch managers and run the same 25 out there. If they do, theyíll get about the same results. The player changes come later in the offseason, the manager change comes first.
    I'm not quite sure how much they'll change. They're still in the awkward position where they're up around the luxury tax, their major league assets don't have much surplus value (and thus not a ton of value on the market), and they're still in a position where they need to be competing since the division isn't very strong. It'll be interesting to see how they can change the roster for the better given these conditions.

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