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  1. #1606
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Missouri
    Posts
    88,191
    I'm still upset that Joe is gone. Some of y'all acted like spoiled babies wanting him gone.

  2. #1607
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
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    3,613
    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    In what way?
    "Rogers says it's still Ross's job to lose. As for Espada, he writes that while sources think he'd be a great in-game manager, the Cubs need someone who can manage this particular team and hold them accountable. Apparently, the former is much more Espada's strength than the latter.

    Also says that Ross is the clear leader because his strength is precisely taking guys to task on mental errors, which was a big reason why Maddon wasn't extended. His sources think that Ross' relationship with team leaders like Rizzo and Lester will be an asset in getting guys in line since they're sure to buy-in. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27868143"

    Some of this (bolded portions) really seem like they like him because they think he can get along with this particular group of players. If what I'm quoting is true, it seems to me short sighted in that they want him because he is close with this iteration of the team.

  3. #1608
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    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,369
    Not really sure why people would think Espada would be better than Ross. Based on what? Ross is extremely cerebral, was like a coach his entire time here. Its not like he has no clue how to make in game decisions, being a catcher he was heavily involved with managers and coaches. Hell, everyone in here thinks they could manage. I believe Ross would have no problem holding players accountable and also believe this team would want to succeed for Ross. The guy is a friggin leader. Look at the respect he had when he played here and what was he, the back up catcher.

    It seemed initially most were happy if Ross was hired. Now all of a sudden some arenít. I just donít see what the problem is. Just hire the guy already, give him a shot. I get the feeling he will end up a great manager who will have a long career doing so in this league if he chooses.

  4. #1609
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    1,074
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    "Rogers says it's still Ross's job to lose. As for Espada, he writes that while sources think he'd be a great in-game manager, the Cubs need someone who can manage this particular team and hold them accountable. Apparently, the former is much more Espada's strength than the latter.

    Also says that Ross is the clear leader because his strength is precisely taking guys to task on mental errors, which was a big reason why Maddon wasn't extended. His sources think that Ross' relationship with team leaders like Rizzo and Lester will be an asset in getting guys in line since they're sure to buy-in. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27868143"

    Some of this (bolded portions) really seem like they like him because they think he can get along with this particular group of players. If what I'm quoting is true, it seems to me short sighted in that they want him because he is close with this iteration of the team.
    These things aren't mutually exclusive with their being bullish on Ross as a long-term manager.

  5. #1610
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    12,147
    I donít care which guy ends up getting the job. I want the person the FO is comfortable with, the person who will help continue player development at the mlb level, the person who can own the room, and the person who makes smart in game decisions. Whoever that person is, hire him.

  6. #1611
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    Oct 2015
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    3,613
    Quote Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp View Post
    These things aren't mutually exclusive with their being bullish on Ross as a long-term manager.
    Sure, and I'm not even saying I'd be against Ross. I just hope that's more of like a cherry on top type of thing than the main reason they hire the guy. The quote I highlighted seemed to emphasize his connection with the current iteration of the team and his ability to take guys to ask on errors as his big pros.

    I just hope that's not the primary reason they make the hire is the point.

  7. #1612
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    56,444
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Sure, and I'm not even saying I'd be against Ross. I just hope that's more of like a cherry on top type of thing than the main reason they hire the guy. The quote I highlighted seemed to emphasize his connection with the current iteration of the team and his ability to take guys to ask on errors as his big pros.

    I just hope that's not the primary reason they make the hire is the point.
    I really don't mind if that's the point, honestly. What it signals is that the main group of players will remain the main group of players for the time being if that's the case. Which I'm happy about. I think the supplemental players, not the "core" guys are the issues with the team right now. It would make me a little more confident that the goal is 2020 and not 2021 or 2020. It might be short sighted, but realistically, managerial hires aren't for the next decade...at times they're for the next three years. Few managers go that long with a team.

    I still think Espada is more the guy I like, but I don't know Ross like the FO knows Ross.

  8. #1613
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    Jul 2010
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    9,369
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Sure, and I'm not even saying I'd be against Ross. I just hope that's more of like a cherry on top type of thing than the main reason they hire the guy. The quote I highlighted seemed to emphasize his connection with the current iteration of the team and his ability to take guys to ask on errors as his big pros.

    I just hope that's not the primary reason they make the hire is the point.
    They are not going to hire him as strictly a feel good story. Theo doesnít work that way. If he is hired its because they have total confidence he can do the job and will get the most out of these players. Not exactly sure why Espada would be more qualified to do so.

  9. #1614
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    Dec 2011
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    1,074
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Sure, and I'm not even saying I'd be against Ross. I just hope that's more of like a cherry on top type of thing than the main reason they hire the guy. The quote I highlighted seemed to emphasize his connection with the current iteration of the team and his ability to take guys to ask on errors as his big pros.

    I just hope that's not the primary reason they make the hire is the point.
    It shows that they want to fix their current flaws. Addressing your roster's current flaws should be a primary reason why you hire a manager.

  10. #1615
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    Aug 2006
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    56,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Salvaged Ship View Post
    They are not going to hire him as strictly a feel good story. Theo doesnít work that way. If he is hired its because they have total confidence he can do the job and will get the most out of these players. Not exactly sure why Espada would be more qualified to do so.
    You can make an argument for both. Espada has a bilingual background, analytics, and outside perspective. He's also been a coach in a dugout. Ross has experience with these players and a prior relationship to the FO.

    I think either are fine. Both have positives. You could make an argument either is a better choice.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  11. #1616
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    Dec 2011
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    1,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Salvaged Ship View Post
    They are not going to hire him as strictly a feel good story. Theo doesnít work that way. If he is hired its because they have total confidence he can do the job and will get the most out of these players. Not exactly sure why Espada would be more qualified to do so.
    Because Espada has a long history of actual coaching experience. But what we've seen in recent years is that a lack of coaching experience isn't really a hindrance for some guys. Counsell (no experience), Cora (one year as a bench coach), Hinch (a year and a half as a manager, though he had no coaching experience prior to that or between his firing and getting the Astros job), Boone (Ross 1.0), and even Kevin Cash (two years as a bullpen coach) all led successful teams recently without having extensive coaching resumes.

    Honestly, as long as Ross takes in heavy input from the front office on in-game stuff, I think he'll be fine.

  12. #1617
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    Dec 2012
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    7,405
    I hope Ross gets it.

    I also hope this move isn't an inclination that the status quo will continue, and that key decisions won't be made (possibly trading Bryant, letting Lester walk after next season)

  13. #1618
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    Dec 2012
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    7,405
    I also wouldn't mind Espada. Seems like a great fit too. And it seems like he's bilingual..I think that's an important skill in a manager

  14. #1619
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    Dec 2012
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    7,405
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Yeah, you did imply that by saying top 10 picks canít be developed. Thatís nonsense. LH was mlb ready when he was drafted, but heís still developed. His L rate is down 10% since his rookie year. Schwarber and especially Happ were not mlb ready when drafted. Iíd love to see an argument that Happ was mlb ready. I wat heís Schwarber in college a lot. I loved the pick. He was not ready to play in the majors when he was picked.

    They have not just done a fine job with development, theyíve done a fantastic job. Easily top 5 in mlb in developing players over the time theyíve been here. Probably top 3.
    I wold separate player development with drafting.

    I agree, they've done an exceptional job at player development.

    But IMO, they've done a really poor job at drafting. Their only notable draft pick was KB, who was an obvious choice when he fell to them because most thought the Astros would snag him.

    I understand that the draft is a crapshoot, but the decisions you make after that aren't. There's no reason why Albert Almora should be on a Major League roster, let alone on the Cubs roster. The only explanation is that they persistently refuse to admit that they were wrong about him, that he's a bust, and that he shouldn't be playing.

    They've had several years to correct several mistakes (Schwarber, Almora, Happ) and so far, nothing.

  15. #1620
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    Jan 2006
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    13,385
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'm still upset that Joe is gone. Some of y'all acted like spoiled babies wanting him gone.
    Thatís why Joe is gone?

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