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  1. #3046
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    May 2012
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    935
    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Yep. The Cubs have had neither great offenses, nor particularly optimal lineups.
    I remember being told repeatedly that the Cubs had a great offense, and that it wasn't a problem, for most of the last two years.

    Rizzo leading off isn't terrible. Rizzo killing his back trying to play like a lead off hitter, or not realizing he's slower now and running into outs, is. If he'll play station to station baseball, it's not a bad fit. I just remember him being thrown out by like 30 feet on a few occasions last year.

  2. #3047
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    There are literally statistics that show optimal lineup construction. It's not subjective.

    In the end, the actual order doesn't matter much. Just that your best hitters are getting the most PAs on a daily basis.

    Inciarte, as Bibs brought up, should not ever be your 5th best hitter. So he should t be leading off. Rizzo, in the other hand, would be a fine guy there. Just give your best hitters the best the most chances.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Iíll be waiting to say Iím sorry and that I was wrong... when Rizzo is our everyday lead off hitter.

  3. #3048
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    Dec 2011
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    2,958
    Lead off for the Cubs in 2019 had 758 PA
    The #4 spot for the Cubs in 2019 had 705 PA

    53 extra chances for Rizzo if he was in the lead off and played every inning of every game.

    He actually had 613 PA with 27 HR (1 every 22.7 PA) 89 R (1 ever 6.8 PA) and 94 RBIs(1 every 6.52 PA)

    If he were to get an extra 53 appearances (unlikely) he would likely hit 2-3 more HRs, 7-8 more runs and 8 more RBIs. And thatís if he got all 53 extra chances...

    Over the course of 146 games he played... those numbers seem insignificant. Like I wouldnít say someone who hit 29 hrs was significantly better than a guy who hit 27.

    Maybe some of those RBIs go down as well due to hitting with less runners on... but maybe he scores more runs with better hitters behind him.

    All in all I think itís a moot point... he wonít be our lead off hitter.

  4. #3049
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    13,965
    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Iíll throw this out there too...

    Maybe a lot of change isnít needed. Maybe it was a lack of motivation. Maybe it was a lack of accountability (we know Theo feels this way). Maybe all we needed was a wee bit tougher manager. So sign NC, move JH to CF (bad move but ok) put Hoerner at 2nd and build that pen. Then roll with it!
    Not sure about lack of motivation or accountability or anything tangible. Might just be things didnít work out. But to your point, maybe a similar team with some minor tweaks, as you suggested does win 90+ games. Maybe to win they donít have to make major moves. IMO if they signed NC, a pen arm and maybe traded for another pen arm and a bench bat they would be favorites in the central. Of course that takes them one year closer to guys leaving as free agents. I donít think they HAVE TO change much to win in 20í. I think to win beyond 21í changes need to be made. And if that is the plan this is the year it has to start.

  5. #3050
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    561
    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Lead off for the Cubs in 2019 had 758 PA
    The #4 spot for the Cubs in 2019 had 705 PA

    53 extra chances for Rizzo if he was in the lead off and played every inning of every game.

    He actually had 613 PA with 27 HR (1 every 22.7 PA) 89 R (1 ever 6.8 PA) and 94 RBIs(1 every 6.52 PA)

    If he were to get an extra 53 appearances (unlikely) he would likely hit 2-3 more HRs, 7-8 more runs and 8 more RBIs. And thatís if he got all 53 extra chances...

    Over the course of 146 games he played... those numbers seem insignificant. Like I wouldnít say someone who hit 29 hrs was significantly better than a guy who hit 27.

    Maybe some of those RBIs go down as well due to hitting with less runners on... but maybe he scores more runs with better hitters behind him.

    All in all I think itís a moot point... he wonít be our lead off hitter.
    It doesnít matter how the lineup is constructed if roster changes arenít made. The swing and miss guys now arenít getting it done. This team needs more contact and speed would be a bonus but contact is an absolute must for next year. I said it a lot last year and will say it again that Merrifield is the perfect fit for the cubs, he solves the contract issue, can steal bases, leadoff and plays a position of need in 2nd base. Make a trade for Whit and plug him into the leadoff spot all year then have Nico hit 2nd and you have the makings of a good offense. Nico and Whit are versatile so they can play outfield too while the other plays at 2nd. I would love to see more hit and run and situational offense, a few more stolen bases

  6. #3051
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    4,084
    Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Quintana, unknown, Chatwood

    This will be their biggest problem in 2020, and because there is no quick fix to this, is IMO the main reason there are rumors about trading core players like Contreras and or KB to get prospects to build another window for 2021 and beyond

    Whatever trades or signings they make this offseason, they better make sure they bring in solid SPs that will be ready to go in 2021 and beyond ..

    Lester Quintana and Chatwood will be gone

    Darvish will be 34 and Hendricks 31

  7. #3052
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Chicago
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    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Quintana, unknown, Chatwood

    This will be their biggest problem in 2020, and because there is no quick fix to this, is IMO the main reason there are rumors about trading core players like Contreras and or KB to get prospects to build another window for 2021 and beyond

    Whatever trades or signings they make this offseason, they better make sure they bring in solid SPs that will be ready to go in 2021 and beyond ..

    Lester Quintana and Chatwood will be gone

    Darvish will be 34 and Hendricks 31
    Yeah the rotation sucks, I dont see Lester getting better hes just old and toast now. Too bad we didnt go for Scherzer. Quintana has always sucked and will continue to suck. I bet we see good years from Hendricks and Darvish. Kinda need one more arm, Bumgarner should be the guy they go after but I bet they will instead grab a scrub like Gibson or Odirizzi (however the hell you spell his name).

  8. #3053
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    54,767
    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Iíll be waiting to say Iím sorry and that I was wrong... when Rizzo is our everyday lead off hitter.
    He may be. He may not be.

    Point is, there's literally nothing wrong with it and it's a possibility. I have a feeling the Cubs will not have a "leadoff hitter" again next year and it will once again be a pretty fluid thing.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  9. #3054
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    2,118
    Quote Originally Posted by TN-cub35 View Post
    It doesnít matter how the lineup is constructed if roster changes arenít made. The swing and miss guys now arenít getting it done. This team needs more contact and speed would be a bonus but contact is an absolute must for next year. I said it a lot last year and will say it again that Merrifield is the perfect fit for the cubs, he solves the contract issue, can steal bases, leadoff and plays a position of need in 2nd base. Make a trade for Whit and plug him into the leadoff spot all year then have Nico hit 2nd and you have the makings of a good offense. Nico and Whit are versatile so they can play outfield too while the other plays at 2nd. I would love to see more hit and run and situational offense, a few more stolen bases
    Ohhhh well your back I see. Iíd like to get Whit, Iíll agree with that part, but for some reason the Royals value him like a 26 year old super star and heís not. He was a 2.9 fWAR player this year. He turns 31 in January and his steals dropped significantly from 2018 to 2019. In 2018 he stole 45 bags and was caught 10 times, in 2019 he stole 20 and was caught 10 times. Thatís not good for a player whose value has a lot to do with his speed. He doesnít walk and struck out 17% of the time this season. The K% isnít terrible but itís gone up each of the last 3 years with his speed decreasing. Heís not worth 1 of our top 4 prospects and thatís likely what KC would want for him. Whit is also basically a 2nd baseman moving forward which would cause Nico to be the future center fielder. We donít know if Nico can handle that full time right now.

    Also what did Nico do this year that makes you think heís ready to bat at the top of the order?


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  10. #3055
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    Oct 2018
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    2,118
    Quote Originally Posted by WhyCantWeWin View Post
    Yeah the rotation sucks, I dont see Lester getting better hes just old and toast now. Too bad we didnt go for Scherzer. Quintana has always sucked and will continue to suck. I bet we see good years from Hendricks and Darvish. Kinda need one more arm, Bumgarner should be the guy they go after but I bet they will instead grab a scrub like Gibson or Odirizzi (however the hell you spell his name).
    Ummm you do realize that Bumgarner was basically Jose Quintana last year, right? Hell Quintana had a higher fWAR than Bum did...


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  11. #3056
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    Apr 2008
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    8,750
    Quote Originally Posted by Dfan25 View Post
    Guys Cubs just need more good players rather than a leadoff hitter. Anthony Rizzo posted an OBP of over 400 againts righties / 371 againts lefties and better than 400 overall . He seems like a great option to leadoff.

    To make it work they need more good players that make the lineup deeper .



    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
    ^^This^^

  12. #3057
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    Apr 2008
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    8,750
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    I think Ross is already pretty much on this page. He said this about 4 years ago:

    ďOverall, I think you need to put your best hitters near the top of the lineup, and your worse hitters near the bottom. You want your best hitters to get more at-bats.Ē

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/david-ro...eague-manager/

    He did also say he likes speed with obp at the top if possible to create chaos on the bases and get more fastballs for the middle of the order.
    I've been saying this for some time on here. The more a guy gets on base, the more AB's he should get. It really seems like common sense to me.

    Get on base......get on base......get on base.

    For my leadoff options it would be, KB against LHP. Rizzo against RHP. I also like the L, R, L, R.....lineup. It's going to be even more important with the new 3 batter minimum this year.

  13. #3058
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    4,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Dfan25 View Post
    Guys Cubs just need more good players rather than a leadoff hitter. Anthony Rizzo posted an OBP of over 400 againts righties / 371 againts lefties and better than 400 overall . He seems like a great option to leadoff.

    To make it work they need more good players that make the lineup deeper .



    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
    What hurt them last 2 yrs was the bottom half of the order was inconsistent and weak for the most part

  14. #3059
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,337
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I've been saying this for some time on here. The more a guy gets on base, the more AB's he should get. It really seems like common sense to me.

    Get on base......get on base......get on base.

    For my leadoff options it would be, KB against LHP. Rizzo against RHP. I also like the L, R, L, R.....lineup. It's going to be even more important with the new 3 batter minimum this year.
    Nobody has ever been opposed to the best hitters hitting at the top. Thinking taking the same group and moving everyone up one spot makes a real difference is that part thatís wrong.

    The lineup stuff is so overplayed. Get 8 good hitters into the lineup.

  15. #3060
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by TN-cub35 View Post
    It doesnít matter how the lineup is constructed if roster changes arenít made. The swing and miss guys now arenít getting it done. This team needs more contact and speed would be a bonus but contact is an absolute must for next year. I said it a lot last year and will say it again that Merrifield is the perfect fit for the cubs, he solves the contract issue, can steal bases, leadoff and plays a position of need in 2nd base. Make a trade for Whit and plug him into the leadoff spot all year then have Nico hit 2nd and you have the makings of a good offense. Nico and Whit are versatile so they can play outfield too while the other plays at 2nd. I would love to see more hit and run and situational offense, a few more stolen bases
    Doesnít it likely take Nico to get Whit though?

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