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  1. #3031
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    Guys Cubs just need more good players rather than a leadoff hitter. Anthony Rizzo posted an OBP of over 400 againts righties / 371 againts lefties and better than 400 overall . He seems like a great option to leadoff.

    To make it work they need more good players that make the lineup deeper .



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  2. #3032
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    Dec 2011
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    Iíll throw this out there too...

    Maybe a lot of change isnít needed. Maybe it was a lack of motivation. Maybe it was a lack of accountability (we know Theo feels this way). Maybe all we needed was a wee bit tougher manager. So sign NC, move JH to CF (bad move but ok) put Hoerner at 2nd and build that pen. Then roll with it!

  3. #3033
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    It depends on what the Red Sox want for Betts. The only way we do it IMO is if we are all in for signing Betts next offseason. Give him a year to experience playing here and hope it gives you an edge in getting him next offseason.

    Pipe dream indeed, but imagine getting Betts and trading KB for McNeil and Contreras for the starting pitching we need. That makes us a better team for sure... Use Q to bring in a dominant reliever. Again though you only do that if you plan on dishing the money out for Betts next offseason.


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    What can we give up to get Betts though?

  4. #3034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dfan25 View Post
    Guys Cubs just need more good players rather than a leadoff hitter. Anthony Rizzo posted an OBP of over 400 againts righties / 371 againts lefties and better than 400 overall . He seems like a great option to leadoff.

    To make it work they need more good players that make the lineup deeper .



    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
    So you want to put one of our best hitters with some of the best power in the leadoff spot where he likely will be hitting without many men on base?

  5. #3035
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Howíd that work out for us this year?
    The Cubs didnít have good production out of every position this year, did they? Itís not about getting a less bad leadoff hitter. Itís about getting good hitters. Lots of them.

  6. #3036
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    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    What can we give up to get Betts though?
    Good question. Iíll leave that to somebody more knowledgeable to answer. Definitely 1 of our top 4 prospects I would imagine. The Red Sox really need pitching, but we donít really have anybody that would interest them I donít think. Alzolay hurt his value this season and Marquez is probably a future reliever and I donít think they trade Betts for a guy that has bullpen written all over him. If we trade Contreras, we canít trade Amaya. I guess that leaves Nico? Not sure.


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  7. #3037
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    So you want to put one of our best hitters with some of the best power in the leadoff spot where he likely will be hitting without many men on base?
    Between Javy, Contreras, KB, Rizzo, and Schwarber, our lineup has enough power where it's probably the most optimal choice.

  8. #3038
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Thatís not true... only 6 guys are ahead of Inciarte for OBP. And two of them arenít on the team anymore (Zo and NC), Wilson may get traded and Bote is a bench player. Of those still under contract only Rizzo, Bryant, Wilson, Caratini had a better OBP... none of those guys are stealing any bases. Heyward had the exact same OBP as Inciarte but when JH hit leadoff it dropped to .252

    Again, there may be better options out there (Iím still waiting to here them) but Inciarte would be a significant upgrade over what we had last year.
    Yah, the Cubs lack of production at leadoff wasn't because they didn't have a speedy CF Dusty Baker. The point was they had 10 better hitters last year but they did a bad job of putting good hitters at the spot. It was my one major beef with Maddon last year. He's actually too traditional when it comes to that. There was absolutely no reason to bat Almora there ever. It's his old school side that made it happen. If the Cubs have a great hitter who's strength is OBP and also happens to be able to steal some bases then by all means please bat that guy leadoff. Ender Inciarte is definitely not that guy. If he's getting the most at bats on your team then you probably don't have a very good offense. Anthony Rizzo is a very good options as currently constructed, but i'd love to see better options emerge over the offseason. Either way i'm pretty certain getting your best hitters as many at bats as possible is something the FO will make sure they stress to Ross. I'm positive that's their philosophy.
    Last edited by Sofnr; 11-09-2019 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #3039
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    2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sofnr View Post
    Yah, the Cubs lack of production at leadoff wasn't because they didn't have a speedy CF Dusty Baker. The point was they had 10 better hitters last year but they did a bad job of putting good hitters at the spot. It was my one major beef with Maddon last year. He's actually too traditional when it comes to that. There was absolutely no reason to bat Almora there ever. It's his old school side that made it happen. If the Cubs have a great hitter who's strength is OBP and also happens to be able to steal some bases then by all means please bat that guy leadoff. Ender Inciarte is definitely not that guy. If he's getting the most at bats on your team then you probably don't have a very good offense. Anthony Rizzo is a very good options as currently constructed, but i'd love to see better options emerge over the offseason. Either way i'm pretty certain getting your best hitters as many at bats as possible is something the FO will make sure they stress to Ross. I'm positive that's their philosophy.
    I think Ross is already pretty much on this page. He said this about 4 years ago:

    ďOverall, I think you need to put your best hitters near the top of the lineup, and your worse hitters near the bottom. You want your best hitters to get more at-bats.Ē

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/david-ro...eague-manager/

    He did also say he likes speed with obp at the top if possible to create chaos on the bases and get more fastballs for the middle of the order.

  10. #3040
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Between Javy, Contreras, KB, Rizzo, and Schwarber, our lineup has enough power where it's probably the most optimal choice.
    Iím not hating the idea but it does fly in the face of conventional wisdom and I seriously doubt that it happens.

  11. #3041
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Iím not hating the idea but it does fly in the face of conventional wisdom and I seriously doubt that it happens.
    The Astros were hitting George Springer leadoff If you have a genuinely good lineup, it's the kind of move you can make. If the Cubs are leading off an Ender Inciarte type, it means their lineup isn't very good or they aren't throwing out an optimal lineup.

  12. #3042
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    The Astros were hitting George Springer leadoff If you have a genuinely good lineup, it's the kind of move you can make. If the Cubs are leading off an Ender Inciarte type, it means their lineup isn't very good or they aren't throwing out an optimal lineup.
    Like the last two years?

  13. #3043
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Like the last two years?
    Yep. The Cubs have had neither great offenses, nor particularly optimal lineups.

  14. #3044
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Yep. The Cubs have had neither great offenses, nor particularly optimal lineups.
    Top 10 both years in runs scored... so better than avg. The thing about the word ďoptimalĒ is thatís itís fluid... it can always be better by adding better hitters. Itís also subjective... whatís optimal to you may not be to Joe Maddon. You canít really say we didnít optimize our lineup because thatís hypothetical.

  15. #3045
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Top 10 both years in runs scored... so better than avg. The thing about the word ďoptimalĒ is thatís itís fluid... it can always be better by adding better hitters. Itís also subjective... whatís optimal to you may not be to Joe Maddon. You canít really say we didnít optimize our lineup because thatís hypothetical.
    There are literally statistics that show optimal lineup construction. It's not subjective.

    In the end, the actual order doesn't matter much. Just that your best hitters are getting the most PAs on a daily basis.

    Inciarte, as Bibs brought up, should not ever be your 5th best hitter. So he should t be leading off. Rizzo, in the other hand, would be a fine guy there. Just give your best hitters the best the most chances.

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