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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Don't forget about Happ. They held him down to work on his hitting style. It seems to have done him some good. And that is just Happ. We know about him because he is a major league player. We might not be aware of others they did the same thing with, reworking their approach and swing.
    And all those hitters they didnít sell low on had good years. Schwarber, Contreras, Bryant, Happ are all more valuable today than they were a year ago. I guess Russell and Almora might be less valuable, but they had no value last year anyway.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    What if Washington said KB + Happ for Turner + Filler (low level prospect)

    Would you do that?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's a tough one. But I'm a huge fan of Happ, so it's hard for me. Plus his time in AAA looks like it's really starting to pay off.

    I would probably try to steer VC their way. We may need Happ to get a lot of AB's in CF or 2B, depending on what other moves they make. Young, cheap switch hitters, who play multiple positions are something teams like to hang on to.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    White Sox TV broadcaster (and former Cubs TV broadcaster) Steve Stone seems to be endorsing Joe Girardi for being the next Cubs manager.
    I like Girardi as manager with Ross as his bench coach..
    They would balance each other out perfectly

    That my hope

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    But those were significant changes. They did launch the lab and put Sagara in charge and it developed results with Ryan, Wick, and Wieck at the big league level and others on the minor league side. They are switching farm directors and bringing in new directors of hitting and pitching (probably Boddy). Those are all changes within the last year.

    They brought in hitters with high contact rates, but when you are on a budget of nothing those contact hitters you can afford are guys like Descalso and Kemp.

    The biggest player development failure has been at the big league level. They have produced a ton of talent from the farm system that is showing here and elsewhere. They switched coaching staffs last year other than Joe.

    I see a lot of complaining and not a lot of solutions.
    These kind of changes don't just show up over night either. You'll probably start seeing more results of these changes over the course of the next year

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Turner WAR of 2.4 OPS+ of 113
    Bryant WAR of 3.6 OPS+ of 130

    Bryant is the better player, no matter how you want to spin it. They are pretty evenly ranked when discussing trade value. Turner is good for the Cubs because of money. All things being equal Bryant is the better ballplayer. Not interested in adding anything, nor do they need to.
    I'm not a big fan of WAR. That said, KB is the better player. Turner in his own way is an absolute star. He's younger, cheaper, and comes with more control. He's a great player.

    I would pull the trigger every day for an even swap tomorrow.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    But those were significant changes. They did launch the lab and put Sagara in charge and it developed results with Ryan, Wick, and Wieck at the big league level and others on the minor league side. They are switching farm directors and bringing in new directors of hitting and pitching (probably Boddy). Those are all changes within the last year.

    They brought in hitters with high contact rates, but when you are on a budget of nothing those contact hitters you can afford are guys like Descalso and Kemp.

    The biggest player development failure has been at the big league level. They have produced a ton of talent from the farm system that is showing here and elsewhere. They switched coaching staffs last year other than Joe.

    I see a lot of complaining and not a lot of solutions.
    Like I said, the pitch lab was beneficial and had good results, the problem is that doing that still puts them behind the 8 ball. We can point to successes, which there definitely were some, I'm not disputing that, but my point is even with that we are still years behind the best team. Your other points are about changes they are making this off-season which should have been made last off-season. That is exactly my point.

    It's really not our jobs to come up with solutions though, that's their job, and they're not doing it very well. The brightest front offices in baseball are kicking our *****, how is someone like me supposed to figure out a better way? We can point out problems and the front office's player development is clearly not above average.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILMindState View Post
    These kind of changes don't just show up over night either. You'll probably start seeing more results of these changes over the course of the next year
    Right. They drafted almost exclusively pitching with meaningful draft picks this year and they drafted a lot of high velocity college pitching. There has clearly already been a pitching development shift in the organization. They need to do more and we need some long term results, but itís not like they didnít make any changes.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILMindState View Post
    I told myself I wasn't going to watch the playoffs last week when I was pissed about the Cubs but I already miss baseball. I'll be watching and rooting for the Nationals tonight.
    Hahahaha.........I was just thinking the exact same think. I've really grown to dislike the Brewers over the last two seasons. I hate getting beat by a team that does it with smoke and mirrors.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Like I said, the pitch lab was beneficial and had good results, the problem is that doing that still puts them behind the 8 ball. We can point to successes, which there definitely were some, I'm not disputing that, but my point is even with that we are still years behind the best team. Your other points are about changes they are making this off-season which should have been made last off-season. That is exactly my point.

    It's really not our jobs to come up with solutions though, that's their job, and they're not doing it very well. The brightest front offices in baseball are kicking our *****, how is someone like me supposed to figure out a better way? We can point out problems and the front office's player development is clearly not above average.
    Thatís fine if you donít have solutions you wish they did a year ago if you want to acknowledge that you donít really know what changes they made to their development process a year ago.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Don't forget about Happ. They held him down to work on his hitting style. It seems to have done him some good. And that is just Happ. We know about him because he is a major league player. We might not be aware of others they did the same thing with, reworking their approach and swing.
    I'm still VERY hesitant on Happ. His contact was still pretty poor until a hot last month...

    https://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.asp...pe=mult&gt1=15

    I hope he's fixed but I still have my doubts.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Thatís fine if you donít have solutions you wish they did a year ago if you want to acknowledge that you donít really know what changes they made to their development process a year ago.
    Sure, I don't know what they did besides what they told us. They basically created the pitch lab, is all I'm really aware of and brought in some pitching "guru." The results seem positive yes but Brendan Miller pointed out a few weeks ago on the Cubs Related podcast that the pitching development system is still very behind other teams in the league. There are more specifics that I can't remember from the podcast but the general idea is that the Cubs still need to do a LOT of work to get up to snuff. My point was they made a few changes last year when they should have been making major changes. Proof? They are doing it this off-season instead of last. These are not new issues, they are only just starting to be addressed.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I'm not a big fan of WAR. That said, KB is the better player. Turner in his own way is an absolute star. He's younger, cheaper, and comes with more control. He's a great player.

    I would pull the trigger every day for an even swap tomorrow.
    I know you are not a fan. But it is a tool to evaluate players. Because of the cost difference, I would do the deal too. Hell, I suggested it. But I do not agree that the Cubs would have to add to it. And I wouldn't add Happ, that is for sure. Unless, of course, the Cubs got something of equal value back. IMO the Cubs do not need to add to Bryant to get Turner.

    Again, I think you are undervaluing KB, a little, and overvaluing Turner as well. Lets look at OPS+. How do you feel about that?
    Turner has played one full year in the league and his ops+ that year was 100 in that year. This year in 122 games it was 113, in 98 games in 17' it was 101. The only impressive year he had using OPS+ was his rookie year when he played in 73 games and had a 142 OPS+. Bryant's average since coming into the league is 136. And that includes last year where he was injured and still turned in OPS+ of 121. Bryant is a great player. Turner is very good.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Right. They drafted almost exclusively pitching with meaningful draft picks this year and they drafted a lot of high velocity college pitching. There has clearly already been a pitching development shift in the organization. They need to do more and we need some long term results, but itís not like they didnít make any changes.
    I was calling for our first three picks to be high velo guys. Although I was a little disappointed, I'll take 2 of the first 3.

    Four of the first 5 picks were college arms. Now let's move them along and get them to the bigs. If they're not moving along quickly, it's probably a development issue, or a drafting issue. Either way is not good.

  14. #149
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    2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Sure, I don't know what they did besides what they told us. They basically created the pitch lab, is all I'm really aware of and brought in some pitching "guru." The results seem positive yes but Brendan Miller pointed out a few weeks ago on the Cubs Related podcast that the pitching development system is still very behind other teams in the league. There are more specifics that I can't remember from the podcast but the general idea is that the Cubs still need to do a LOT of work to get up to snuff. My point was they made a few changes last year when they should have been making major changes. Proof? They are doing it this off-season instead of last. These are not new issues, they are only just starting to be addressed.
    No offense to North, but I donít think heís connected. Iím guessing he was talking about that series of tweets by the BN Cubs prospects guy that focused mostly on consistent language through pitching development.

    I tried to listen to that podcast a bunch of times but couldnít stick with it. I just didnít like the format they used for all the episodes I heard. One guy would talk for 5-7 min, then the next guy would talk for 5-7 min, then back to the first one for another speech. Maybe it got a lot better this year but it drove me crazy that they were just exchanging speeches instead of having a conversation.

    I think pointing out their pitching development has been behind some other teams is fair, but thereís nothing that could have been done last winter that would have changed 2019 and we donít really know everything theyíve changed.
    Last edited by CP_414; 10-01-2019 at 03:10 PM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I know you are not a fan. But it is a tool to evaluate players. Because of the cost difference, I would do the deal too. Hell, I suggested it. But I do not agree that the Cubs would have to add to it. And I wouldn't add Happ, that is for sure. Unless, of course, the Cubs got something of equal value back. IMO the Cubs do not need to add to Bryant to get Turner.

    Again, I think you are undervaluing KB, a little, and overvaluing Turner as well. Lets look at OPS+. How do you feel about that?
    Turner has played one full year in the league and his ops+ that year was 100 in that year. This year in 122 games it was 113, in 98 games in 17' it was 101. The only impressive year he had using OPS+ was his rookie year when he played in 73 games and had a 142 OPS+. Bryant's average since coming into the league is 136. And that includes last year where he was injured and still turned in OPS+ of 121. Bryant is a great player. Turner is very good.
    Well, they play different positions. A third baseman should have a higher OPS.

    I know you suggested it. I jumped on, and now I don't want to get off.

    If we are looking at it from Washington's point of view, I highly doubt that they would consider giving up a year of control, adding an additional 14 million to their payroll, losing 3 years of age, and losing a premium position player, for two years and 45 million for a third baseman.

    Just my opinion

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