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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    West Side
    Posts
    12,160
    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    won't even be Watcha.

    Smyly
    Matt Moore
    Drew Pomeranz
    Cashner
    ....
    lol I didn't want to put Cashner because I knew that was the most likely


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,168
    Remember the adage we heard before was we would spend when the time was right...and that time came when we bottomed out to last place . Iím not expecting 150m payroll next season but I think 100m would make sense as we can add players in free agency that we think will still be good in 2021 and 2022.
    Iím all for signing 3 odorizzi, wheeler types.
    This offseason sp market is better than next year and we have tons of payroll so I couldnít see a better match.
    Unless you think we are gonna go out there with a 60m or so payroll and be ok with being a complete crap team again.
    Last year made sense as we graduated and integrated the bats. The same canít be said for sp next year. Pearson is coming and thatís it.
    We donít punt a season for the panonne, borucki, srf, zeuch, Kay,Thorntonís. That is not high end talent. At Best we get a serviceable 4 and 5 sp outta this group and thatís probably not gonna happen IMO. The next wave of pitching is 2021 and pitchers typically struggle upon arrival so I wouldnít expect any sp to rip it up from the start

    Iíd be pumped if those guys could turn into a good cheap bullpen but they all come with warts right now.

    So signing 3 sp to short contracts to go with shoemaker and Thornton makes a sensible attack to the offseason to me.

    Time is ticking on front office contracts as well. Time to flex the financial muscle they have been waiting for.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    11,712
    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    Remember the adage we heard before was we would spend when the time was right...and that time came when we bottomed out to last place . Iím not expecting 150m payroll next season but I think 100m would make sense as we can add players in free agency that we think will still be good in 2021 and 2022.
    Iím all for signing 3 odorizzi, wheeler types.
    This offseason sp market is better than next year and we have tons of payroll so I couldnít see a better match.
    Unless you think we are gonna go out there with a 60m or so payroll and be ok with being a complete crap team again.
    Last year made sense as we graduated and integrated the bats. The same canít be said for sp next year. Pearson is coming and thatís it.
    We donít punt a season for the panonne, borucki, srf, zeuch, Kay,Thorntonís. That is not high end talent. At Best we get a serviceable 4 and 5 sp outta this group and thatís probably not gonna happen IMO. The next wave of pitching is 2021 and pitchers typically struggle upon arrival so I wouldnít expect any sp to rip it up from the start

    Iíd be pumped if those guys could turn into a good cheap bullpen but they all come with warts right now.

    So signing 3 sp to short contracts to go with shoemaker and Thornton makes a sensible attack to the offseason to me.

    Time is ticking on front office contracts as well. Time to flex the financial muscle they have been waiting for.
    I don't know if 3 are needed, but I certainly agree that this front office should invest in some capable starting pitchers. Even if it is not the Gerrit Cole tier, the types of pitchers you mention would work for me. I'm just really skeptical they'll invest this year.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,077
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Itís realistically going to be more Shoemaker/Richard/Buchholz types. Bounce backs, coming off injuries, etc. Or at least mostly those types with maybe a 180 IP #3 type at the top end.
    Yeah the ceiling for me is 1 180 inning eater type. I donít see any game changers coming in at all. Position wise or pitching.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,077
    I need to see a list of type A/B guys before I make any bold predictions. Cole is probably the only SP worth sacrificing a pick. Imo we are still about 3 years from a winning season if they plan to just build/integrate from within without major upgrades from outside the franchise.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,257
    Cole
    Bum
    Odorizzi
    Wheeler
    Hamels

    Strasburg and Darvish have opt outs

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,639
    Dream scenario is Gerrit Cole but a more realistic but still unlikey scenario is we get Wheeler. If neither I can see and wouldnít mind Cole Hamels on a 1-2 year deal and bringing back Shoemaker.

    Hamels
    Thornton
    Kay
    Shoemaker
    Zeuch
    Wags

    Borucki
    Pearson

    The bottom two I see starting in AAA but short stays. Then we have Merryweather, Murphy, Diaz, SRF, Perez, Johnston and Hatch as depth throughout the season. Not that these are exciting names but their just big unknowns.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,168
    In the al east the wags and zeuches arenít gonna cut it IMO.

    Iím also lower on Thornton than most I guess. I think if he was a yankee, we would say he sucks and should be in the bullpen.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    6,879
    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    In the al east the wags and zeuches arenít gonna cut it IMO.

    Iím also lower on Thornton than most I guess. I think if he was a yankee, we would say he sucks and should be in the bullpen.
    I'm higher on Zeuch than I am on Thornton. I don't like Thornton's mechanics at all. The only thing Thornton has going for him is he just made 29 starts and showed he could be a #5.

    Zeuch missed the first half of the season due to injury, then was promoted to AAA after just 2 starts and then promoted to the big leagues 13 starts later. His sinker is solid from his 6'7 frame and his change up is another quality pitches with great arm action and solid 10 mph separation. Not sure how that change up graded out as a 45 on the scouting scale, because it looked really good to me. He also showed signs of a pretty solid slider down and away to right handed batters at times in September too. If he gets a little more consistent with that pitch my only question with him is his durability. The stuff is solid but he's only gone over 100 innings once in his 3 years coming up through the minors (...156 IP in 2018). Despite missing all that time in 2017 and this year though he still made it to the majors in just 3 years. He didn't strike many people out in the minors, but over his 22 IP in September he had 20 K's.


    I am not that high on Wags either....but maybe he just ran out of gas in September. When he first came up he was throwing like 95mph, but at the end he was throwing like 91. When looking at his overall stats though, you have to keep in mind the guy did face playoff teams in 10 of his 16 major league starts (.....with 2 others against Boston.) He was facing potent lineups almost every time out and managed to go 5-5 with a 4.38 ERA. He went 4-0 in his 6 starts against non playoff teams teams (including Bos), and as expected the rookie went 1-5 in his 10 starts against the likes of NY (x3), TB (x4), ATL (x2) and LAD. Sure it would be nice to have a more proven guy, but at least he takes the ball every 5 days and looks ready to throw 150 innings next year.



    I think either one of those guys could be a decent #5 starter next year...but I would love it if they were deep enough to start them both in AAA and use them somewhere in the 6-10 range of the depth chart.


    After hearing Atkins clarify his "depth" comments yesterday and how he said this off season was going to essentially be wide open again like it was back after the 2015 season, and that in a few years we would look back at this off season as an important one.....I think they are going to try and make some splashes again this off season.

    Can you imagine if they can get 1 solid TORP and 1 other solid SP who can give you 180+ solid innings on multi-year contracts this off season? They could potentially have like 8 guys fighting for 1 or 2 spots in the rotation next spring.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,168
    Good write up. ESP on wags. Swayed me a bit. I still donít want a 3-4-5 of shoemaker , wags, and Thornton even if we had scherzer and Verlander at 1-2.

    If there was ever a team to break the mold in regards to sp and rp roles it would be this squad. We got seemingly tons of pitchers that should be able to give 4 lights out innings but anything more than that is testing your luck.

    We would need piggybacking and a full time taxi squad of pitchers going to and from buffalo.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    10,077
    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    Good write up. ESP on wags. Swayed me a bit. I still donít want a 3-4-5 of shoemaker , wags, and Thornton even if we had scherzer and Verlander at 1-2.

    If there was ever a team to break the mold in regards to sp and rp roles it would be this squad. We got seemingly tons of pitchers that should be able to give 4 lights out innings but anything more than that is testing your luck.

    We would need piggybacking and a full time taxi squad of pitchers going to and from buffalo.
    It would be interesting and might work if you are very secretive about who will be piggy backing.

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