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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Do you feel it would have been wise for the Mavericks to trade Dirk Nowitzki after they won the championship?

    They are hard questions, but I think you are understating the importance of franchise players (by that I mean players that stick with franchises) to the history of an organization, its culture, its fans, etc. Especially when that player has a long history that ends up leading to a championship season.

    Lowry kind of defines who we want our Raptors to be doesn't he? Hard nosed, underappreciated, talented, winning, durable, relentless, smallest guy on the court with the biggest heart, smart, unselfish, etc.

    How many players league wide can match his stats for charges drawn, 3PTM, assists and team wins over his tenure with the team?
    Iím with you.
    That being said the only expiring contract that qualifies for this is Lowry.

    Gasol and Ibaka can be shopped all day and night.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Iím with you.
    That being said the only expiring contract that qualifies for this is Lowry.

    Gasol and Ibaka can be shopped all day and night.
    No issue there.

  3. #63
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    I think Ibaka and Gasol are a big part of why we were one of the best defensive teams in the league last year. I think they should resign Ibaka now since he just turned 30. They are going to need a 5 man to go with Siakam after this season and I can't see a better one signing here.

    I still think this 10 man unit can play with anyone:

    Gasol/Boucher
    Ibaka/OG
    Siakam/Miller
    Powell/Davis
    Lowry/FVV

    I think you need to see what they can do at least until the trade deadline.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Do you feel it would have been wise for the Mavericks to trade Dirk Nowitzki after they won the championship?

    They are hard questions, but I think you are understating the importance of franchise players (by that I mean players that stick with franchises) to the history of an organization, its culture, its fans, etc. Especially when that player has a long history that ends up leading to a championship season.

    Lowry kind of defines who we want our Raptors to be doesn't he? Hard nosed, underappreciated, talented, winning, durable, relentless, smallest guy on the court with the biggest heart, smart, unselfish, etc.

    How many players league wide can match his stats for charges drawn, 3PTM, assists and team wins over his tenure with the team?
    Bad comparison. Dirk was a super star on a whole different tier than Lowry. He was the Leonard of his championship squad. Not the Jason Terry. Also Dirk played for the Mavericks for 21 years. Dirk took paycuts to help the Mavs. Look it up if you need to.

    You think Lowry is taking paycuts to stay here? Heís making 63 million over the next two years where he will be 34-35 years old.

    Look I get the sentimental stuff but the league has changed since Dirk was drafted. Gone are the days that players retire playing for one team, and gone are the days when loyalty actually meant something in this league. Teams and players have proven that over and over again in the last 10-15 years that those days are long gone.

    Point guards of today are now much longer, athletic types that Lowry really struggles against in fact as much as I like FVV I wouldnít be in favour for him to start as I see him as being undersized as well. I like the Simmons, Winslow, Murray prototype of guards that are coming up now. And thatís the way the league is moving, bigger pgs, smaller centres and basically 5 long athletic guys who can do it all. I donít particularly like it, but thatís whatís happening.

    If you want to be all mushy about Lowry being here for his 8th season then Iíll ask where your bleeding heart was for DeRozan and his 9 seasons? Whatís the difference in trading them?
    If moving DeRozan for Leonard meant being a better team then why would it be any different with Lowry? Simply Put if a trade can help this team moving fwd I wouldnít care who it is, I would consider it.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-09-2019 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I think Ibaka and Gasol are a big part of why we were one of the best defensive teams in the league last year. I think they should resign Ibaka now since he just turned 30. They are going to need a 5 man to go with Siakam after this season and I can't see a better one signing here.

    I still think this 10 man unit can play with anyone:

    Gasol/Boucher
    Ibaka/OG
    Siakam/Miller
    Powell/Davis
    Lowry/FVV

    I think you need to see what they can do at least until the trade deadline.
    Sure they can compete for this year and then possibly lose assets when guys like Gasol expire. Hence why trading him for something now would be wise. Because while they can compete this year they certainly will not contend this year.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-09-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  6. #66
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    With that being said I totally respect you guys opinion of running it back Itís just my opinion that itís time for a rebuild

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Do you feel it would have been wise for the Mavericks to trade Dirk Nowitzki after they won the championship?

    They are hard questions, but I think you are understating the importance of franchise players (by that I mean players that stick with franchises) to the history of an organization, its culture, its fans, etc. Especially when that player has a long history that ends up leading to a championship season.

    Lowry kind of defines who we want our Raptors to be doesn't he? Hard nosed, underappreciated, talented, winning, durable, relentless, smallest guy on the court with the biggest heart, smart, unselfish, etc.

    How many players league wide can match his stats for charges drawn, 3PTM, assists and team wins over his tenure with the team?
    If you are going to say the good things, I may point out the bad as well. Whiny, self centered, disruptive at times. His time here wasn't without issues. He clashed with Casey to MU. I was not a big DD fan, but he was much better to the Franchise than Lowry was. I have no issue with raptors bringing him back for an additional year. But if there is a trade for him that makes the team better, raptors should definitely go for it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Bad comparison. Dirk was a super star on a whole different tier than Lowry. He was the Leonard of his championship squad. Not the Jason Terry. Also Dirk played for the Mavericks for 21 years. Dirk took paycuts to help the Mavs. Look it up if you need to.

    You think Lowry is taking paycuts to stay here? Heís making 63 million over the next two years where he will be 34-35 years old.

    Look I get the sentimental stuff but the league has changed since Dirk was drafted. Gone are the days that players retire playing for one team, and gone are the days when loyalty actually meant something in this league. Teams and players have proven that over and over again in the last 10-15 years that those days are long gone.

    Point guards of today are now much longer, athletic types that Lowry really struggles against in fact as much as I like FVV I wouldnít be in favour for him to start as I see him as being undersized as well. I like the Simmons, Winslow, Murray prototype of guards that are coming up now. And thatís the way the league is moving, bigger pgs, smaller centres and basically 5 long athletic guys who can do it all. I donít particularly like it, but thatís whatís happening.

    If you want to be all mushy about Lowry being here for his 8th season then Iíll ask where your bleeding heart was for DeRozan and his 9 seasons? Whatís the difference in trading them?
    If moving DeRozan for Leonard meant being a better team then why would it be any different with Lowry? Simply Put if a trade can help this team moving fwd I wouldnít care who it is, I would consider it.
    The difference for me that I feel Lowry is a far superior player to DeRozan and drove the success of this team pretty much from the moment he was brought into the rotation. Their impact on the team was no where near close in my opinion.

    My point with Dirk is that sometimes the legacy a player gave to a franchise is worth finishing a certain way. You and I clearly feel differently about his importance to that legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    If you are going to say the good things, I may point out the bad as well. Whiny, self centered, disruptive at times. His time here wasn't without issues. He clashed with Casey to MU. I was not a big DD fan, but he was much better to the Franchise than Lowry was. I have no issue with raptors bringing him back for an additional year. But if there is a trade for him that makes the team better, raptors should definitely go for it.
    He was a more agreeable personality, but I don't think that means he was "better to the franchise." More cooperative, but failed have near the impact on building and sustaining a winning culture in my opinion.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    The difference for me that I feel Lowry is a far superior player to DeRozan and drove the success of this team pretty much from the moment he was brought into the rotation. Their impact on the team was no where near close in my opinion.

    My point with Dirk is that sometimes the legacy a player gave to a franchise is worth finishing a certain way. You and I clearly feel differently about his importance to that legacy.



    He was a more agreeable personality, but I don't think that means he was "better to the franchise." More cooperative, but failed have near the impact on building and sustaining a winning culture in my opinion.
    So loyalty only comes in to play for a player you feel is worthy of it? Thatís a double standard.

    Lowry is much closer to the caliber of player that DeRozan is than he is to Dirk. Thatís not arguable.

    I donít think your personal opinion of one player vs another player should define your loyalty.

    Thereís a lot of people who would have preferred to keep a younger DeRozan in his prime while making less money annually. Also whoís to say that Leonard doesnít stay then if he has another star player that fits his window? After all he did leave to go join up with Paul George who is simply younger and in his prime.

    If Lowry was 28 there would be no issue. But heís 34 this year. Itís time to look to the future sooner than later.

  10. #70
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    Lowry and DeRozan were circulating on a treadmill until Leonard came and literally elevated the team to a championship! The furthest they got was to the ECFís and while both were instrumental in getting the team that far neither had it in them to take the team all the way. Along with Siakamís 3rd year leap Leonard by far had more impact in one year than Lowry did in 8 or DeRozan did in 9. So to me the loyalty discussion is null.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Lowry and DeRozan were circulating on a treadmill until Leonard came and literally elevated the team to a championship! The furthest they got was to the ECFís and while both were instrumental in getting the team that far neither had it in them to take the team all the way. Along with Siakamís 3rd year leap Leonard by far had more impact in one year than Lowry did in 8 or DeRozan did in 9. So to me the loyalty discussion is null.
    I think Masai is showing other players(FA's) that this organization will reward players who have been vital contributors to its uplift-ment. Giving Lowry the extra year and money looks clasy and is a good marketing tool. I don't think he gets close to that if he signed elsewhere in 20. With Leonard bouncing, Raps need to show that they are serious about maintaining a winning culture, so doing what they did for Lowry only helps (image wise).

    I personally don't think every superstar is like Kawhi and would just bolt like that if they came to Toronto. His case is really something else, how do you leave the Spurs like that and how well they were run as well. It was LA or bust for him and his family. He left 2 championship situations and more money on the table. We just made it super hard for him to leave, with how we treated him here as an organization and how he was adored by the fans. I think that scored points with other players from us tbh.

    Theoretically a rebuild is better but pragmatically and business wise and with how other players are looking at the franchise, signing and keeping Lowry might be the better play.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    I think Masai is showing other players(FA's) that this organization will reward players who have been vital contributors to its uplift-ment. Giving Lowry the extra year and money looks clasy and is a good marketing tool. I don't think he gets close to that if he signed elsewhere in 20. With Leonard bouncing, Raps need to show that they are serious about maintaining a winning culture, so doing what they did for Lowry only helps (image wise).

    I personally don't think every superstar is like Kawhi and would just bolt like that if they came to Toronto. His case is really something else, how do you leave the Spurs like that and how well they were run as well. It was LA or bust for him and his family. He left 2 championship situations and more money on the table. We just made it super hard for him to leave, with how we treated him here as an organization and how he was adored by the fans. I think that scored points with other players from us tbh.

    Theoretically a rebuild is better but pragmatically and business wise and with how other players are looking at the franchise, signing and keeping Lowry might be the better play.
    You think other players are looking at the raptors and thinking ďoh wow look how well they are treating Lowry over there north of the borderĒ ???

    Itís a nice thought, but the way Derozan was traded probably stands out more.

    Maybe Iím not as sentimental as you guys are but I just think a rebuild is in the best interest of the franchise.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post

    If you want to be all mushy about Lowry being here for his 8th season then Iíll ask where your bleeding heart was for DeRozan and his 9 seasons? Whatís the difference in trading them?
    Groan. Here we go. One was protected and insulated by the culture. The only one IS the culture. And way more accomplished.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 10-09-2019 at 04:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Groan. Here we go. One was protected and insulated by the culture. The only one IS the culture. And way more accomplished.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    In other words ď I like Lowrys game way better so I think heís more deservingĒ which is fine if thatís your opinion just say it for what it is. It has nothing to do with loyalty really and all to do with the admiration for his game which I share but I also see him as a player thatís already peaked and passed his prime and would love it if we moved toward a younger direction.

    Its not that I donít love and respect Lowry. Iím not even sure why this turned in to solely about Lowry when Iím saying that if the right trade presented itself for just about anyone on the roster Iíd def consider it.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    In other words ď I like Lowrys game way better so I think heís more deservingĒ which is fine if thatís your opinion just say it for what it is. It has nothing to do with loyalty really and all to do with the admiration for his game which I share but I also see him as a player thatís already peaked and passed his prime and would love it if we moved toward a younger direction.

    Its not that I donít love and respect Lowry. Iím not even sure why this turned in to solely about Lowry when Iím saying that if the right trade presented itself for just about anyone on the roster Iíd def consider it.
    I think the difference in my opinion is that Lowry = winning, Derozan = easily replaceable (at least on the court)

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