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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Telling us what his numbers is when adjusted without telling up what average and top ten average was is kinda useless. Telling me he was 25/5/5 on per75 without context doesn’t do much swaying.

    And here’s the reason I bring this up: Bookers 56% TS vs 53.5% TS is brought up like it should matter. The average of the top 10 is roughly 65% TS. Even among just guards it’s about 62% TS.

    Also I think the point you're trying to make is lacks context even further, and is poorly formulated. To try and compare someone like Clint Capela's TS% to a player like Devin Booker's is like apple to oranges. Like of course a guy who's shots all come at the rim in the form of dunks are going to have a higher TS% thank someone who scores from all over. What we need to do to apply further context is adjust for minutes, game played, and USG to get a grip on the average TS% for guards on the higher end of the spectrum in respect to USG.

    When I set the criteria of min. 40 games played, min. 25 mpg. and min. 20% USG in NBA.com's stat finder we can see where Booker ranks among other high USG guards:

    https://stats.nba.com/players/advanc...:USG_PCT*GE*20

    We can see that Booker ranks 8th overall in TS% (he actually shot 58%), while being 7th in the league in PPG.

  2. #32
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    He will end up in a Knicks Jersey, Knicks love fake superstars, hes exactly the type of fake star knicks will waste years trying to build around.

  3. #33
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    Hell naw. Once he complained about being doubled at the gym, all of my prior suspicions of him were confirmed

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    You mean top 10 players in the league? I don't even think Booker is a top 40 player in the league dude lol. I'm not trying to argue that he's elite in really anything, but to discount his offensive ability altogether is lazy analysis.

    I didnt mean to come off discrediting his offensive. It it is overrated.

    Also to the guy Trey Young is the worst defender. Statistically you can make an argument for both. Young is also a rookie. I am in Phoenix tv market and the dude doesn’t care about getting lit up on the defensive end.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    You mean top 10 players in the league? I don't even think Booker is a top 40 player in the league dude lol. I'm not trying to argue that he's elite in really anything, but to discount his offensive ability altogether is lazy analysis.
    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    Also I think the point you're trying to make is lacks context even further, and is poorly formulated. To try and compare someone like Clint Capela's TS% to a player like Devin Booker's is like apple to oranges. Like of course a guy who's shots all come at the rim in the form of dunks are going to have a higher TS% thank someone who scores from all over. What we need to do to apply further context is adjust for minutes, game played, and USG to get a grip on the average TS% for guards on the higher end of the spectrum in respect to USG.

    When I set the criteria of min. 40 games played, min. 25 mpg. and min. 20% USG in NBA.com's stat finder we can see where Booker ranks among other high USG guards:

    https://stats.nba.com/players/advanc...:USG_PCT*GE*20

    We can see that Booker ranks 8th overall in TS% (he actually shot 58%), while being 7th in the league in PPG.
    Again not really sure what this had to do with my question. Where does his 25/5/5 per 75 possessions fall relative to where the league is?

  6. #36
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    Yeeesh. 34th in ORtg on that stat chart and 46th in net rating (out of 50).

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Again not really sure what this had to do with my question. Where does his 25/5/5 per 75 possessions fall relative to where the league is?
    His combination of volume and efficiency is above the league league average per 75 possessions, which again, is the average amount of possessions a player gets in a game.

    Also, offensive rating is a really poor stat to rate individual players (as is defensive rating). Look at the top 10 in Ortg:

    1. Dwight Powell • DAL 134.6
    2. Clint Capela • HOU 133.1
    3. Rudy Gobert • UTA 132.9
    4. Thomas Bryant • WAS 129.8
    5. Danilo Gallinari • LAC 124.9
    6. Monte Morris • DEN 124.0
    7. Derrick Favors • UTA 123.7
    8. Jarrett Allen • BRK 123.5
    9. Taj Gibson • MIN 123.1
    10. Montrezl Harrell • LAC 122.3


    You're really grasping at straws here

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    His combination of volume and efficiency is above the league league average per 75 possessions, which again, is the average amount of possessions a player gets in a game.

    Also, offensive rating is a really poor stat to rate individual players (as is defensive rating). Look at the top 10 in Ortg:

    1. Dwight Powell • DAL 134.6
    2. Clint Capela • HOU 133.1
    3. Rudy Gobert • UTA 132.9
    4. Thomas Bryant • WAS 129.8
    5. Danilo Gallinari • LAC 124.9
    6. Monte Morris • DEN 124.0
    7. Derrick Favors • UTA 123.7
    8. Jarrett Allen • BRK 123.5
    9. Taj Gibson • MIN 123.1
    10. Montrezl Harrell • LAC 122.3


    You're really grasping at straws here
    I'm not grasping at straws. You seem to be avoiding the question. Where does the 25/5/5 on per75 stack up against league average and the top? What is league average? Is it 20/4/4? 15/2/3? What's near the top? 33/10/10? 28/6/8? You're throwing out his 25/5/5 line like I should be impressed without context.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I'm not grasping at straws. You seem to be avoiding the question. Where does the 25/5/5 on per75 stack up against league average and the top? What is league average? Is it 20/4/4? 15/2/3? What's near the top? 33/10/10? 28/6/8? You're throwing out his 25/5/5 line like I should be impressed without context.
    Nah you just worded the question poorly. I'm not sure if anywhere lists what the league average is for individual players on per 75 basis. But its a pretty straight forward stat. Most players getting starter minutes get around 75 possessions per game. Notice how 95% of them aren't averaging 25+ ppg. I'm guessing it would average out to around 11/3/3.

    What we can do is go through players with similar USG and minutes. Doing this, I found that Booker had a higher per 75 line than:

    Bradley Beal
    Buddy Hield
    Ben Simmons
    Zach Lavine
    Klay Thompson
    Jimmy Butler
    Mike Conley
    Kemba Walker
    Jrue Holiday
    Cj McCollum
    Demar DeRozan
    Donovan Mitchell
    D'Angelo Russell
    equal ppg to Russell Westbrook

    with only Klay, Jimmy, and Kemba (ever so slightly) having a higher TS% than him and Simmons, Walker, Russell, Westbrook, and Jrue having a dramatically higher APG than him.

    So to come back to your question, his per 75 stacks up alongside, or even higher than player we recognize as routine all stars.
    Last edited by VCaintdead17; 09-29-2019 at 11:01 PM.

  10. #40
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    Still no.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Still no.
    Pretty much IMO. Terrible defense + just above average offense. If you want to be a superstar with little defense you have to be all time elite like Harden on offense.

  12. #42
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    The problem with this conversation is that people give Booker a pass for being bad, because he's on the Suns. Ayton is also on the Suns, in the same system, and no one questions whether he is a good player.

    This feels like MJ's shadow effect. When someone scores a lot from a wing position, if it resembles MJ in style he will inevitably be overrated. It must be good because it reminds you of Jordan and he was the GOAT. This thread is about someone who is moderately above average offensively and atrcious defensively, and the question is if he'll be a superstar. The reasoning is that his team and situation are keeping him down, despite another player on the same team who is younger yet miles ahead of Booker, in a league that presumably is stacked in favor of Booker and against Ayton.

    This thread should be about why Ayton is 66 for ESPN and outside the top 100 for SI, when Booker is in the 30s.

  13. #43
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    yes. he reminds me of a playmaking ray Allen

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Pretty much IMO. Terrible defense + just above average offense. If you want to be a superstar with little defense you have to be all time elite like Harden on offense.
    Yeah this wasn't even the point I was trying to make. Like no **** he's not a superstar, and likely won't ever be. Like I said, he's not even in my top 40 players, but his scoring ability is still impressive.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Pretty much IMO. Terrible defense + just above average offense. If you want to be a superstar with little defense you have to be all time elite like Harden on offense.
    Even Harden struggles to be a "superstar" because people don't like him. He's not easy.

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