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  1. #121
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    Who knows if Betts even wanted to stay in Boston? If he didn't then he is gone anyway. What we do know is that he was adamant about going to UFA and wasn't settling for anything short of Trout money. Price's contract was a killer for the next 3 seasons. Does anyone actually believe that our current lineup and rotation with Betts and Price included had a realistic chance to win the World Series? It was a long shot at best where we would have had to pray that Sale, Price and Eovaldi all stayed healthy and rebounded. Even then was our bullpen just going to magically turn it around? I dont anticipate this season would have been much better than last year with no manager in the place and the potential distraction of the sign stealing controversy depending on the outcome of that investigation.

    This trade gives us some flexibility and buys us some time to assess where we are at. It also potentially helps keep guys like JD Martinez, Benatendi and Devers who will need to be signed in the near future. If Mookie did still want to play in Boston there is still nothing to stop us from paying his price tag in UFA with the added benefit of resetting the luxury tax and dumping Price's contract. I wouldn't hold my breathe though because it didn't seem like he was all that concerned with staying in Boston and there is not one instance of signing a guy to a record deal over a decade that worked out well for the team. Almost every time that blows up in your face and Mookie Betts has much more of a Dustin Pedroia body type than he does a Mike Trout body type. Those 35+ year old years might not be pretty.

    Blood, Sweat and Beards!!!!!

  2. #122
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    Do you guys see the Red Sox taking calls for JD Martinez at the trade deadline if he has a great first half?

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyisgoinsolo View Post
    Do you guys see the Red Sox taking calls for JD Martinez at the trade deadline if he has a great first half?
    Absolutely. I believe Martinez has 2 years left on hsi contract and if the Sox don;t believe they will be able to contend for a title in those 2 years then there is no point in keeping him when they can trade him now (this season) for some package of prospects. This kicks the rebuilding/rebooting processing up a notch and in theory takes less time to become a title contender again.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    Absolutely. I believe Martinez has 2 years left on hsi contract and if the Sox don;t believe they will be able to contend for a title in those 2 years then there is no point in keeping him when they can trade him now (this season) for some package of prospects. This kicks the rebuilding/rebooting processing up a notch and in theory takes less time to become a title contender again.
    I beleive Martinez has another couple of opt-outs at the end of this year and the next, if he doesn't think the Red Sox are going to compete in the near term he also has more incentives to exercise them... They should trade him before the deadline and get something in return; otherwise he's going to be a FA at the end of the season

  5. #125
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    Winner: Dodgers
    I mean, duh. When you add one of the game's best players (and a good veteran starter) and don't surrender either of your top two prospects (Gavin Lux and Dustin May), you're a winner. The Dodgers added Betts to an already potent lineup -- and an already potent defense, it should be noted -- and have erased the sour taste left in the mouths of fans after missing out on Gerrit Cole, Anthony Rendon, and Stephen Strasburg. It's a good day in Chavez Ravine.


    Loser: Red Sox
    Boston just traded one of the best players in baseball for an outfield prospect with a back injury, a pitching prospect who might end up in relief, and payroll flexibility they can't even use right away because the offseason is over and free agency has been picked clean. That gets a yikes from me. Even with his free agency looming, Betts had enormous value. Look at the Paul Goldschmidt trade. One year of Goldschmidt fetched a good starter (Luke Weaver) and a great catcher (Carson Kelly), plus more. Betts is better than Goldschmidt and he returned two prospects and salary relief. I don't like it for Boston. Not at all.
    cbs sports

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyisgoinsolo View Post
    That's pretty much it, they got fleeced.
    Since the deal has not been finalized, we only have the names that have been confirmed. Every article to date has said "a package including..." because the writers are smart enough to leave themselves wiggle room. It may only be those two. Or it may not. Once they figure out to do with the shaky medicals then we'll know more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Station 13 View Post
    Terrible trade. Lose an MVP caliber stack in his prime for no high upside players.
    I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment of the prospects involved. Both players were ranked in Baseball America's top 35 when they entered MLB. Vedugo was a top 50 prospect for three consecutive years as he bid his time waiting for the LAD OF logjam to clear. I think that they're better than you're giving then credit for.

    With that said, they're still just prospects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wojo View Post
    I could understand a team like the Rays making a trade like this, but the Red Sox?

    Imagine the Yankees trading Judge and Cole like that in a few years.

    Players like Betts donít come along very often.

    As classy as he is talented.

    Top 5 player, homegrown, zero problems.

    Good luck replacing that.
    Mookie is an incredible player and I've always had the impression of him being a great person, too. The problem is not so much Mookie but the lack of alternatives to pare the MLB-leading payroll as mandated by the owner. Mookie on his own was rumored to be bringing back Verdugo and two more prospects; look what including Price did to that deal. The alternatives -- Sale, Eovaldi, Bradley, Bogaerts -- didn't make sense for a variety of reasons. Both Sale and Eovaldi have injuries dulling their value. Bradley doesn't save enough. Bogaerts has too much value to the team given the extension he signed. It was kinda Mookie or bust. I'm not sure that keeping Price out of the deal to rebuild value wasn't a smarter move than this trade, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosston View Post
    • Mookie wants more than Trout, he's not worth more than Trout. (Mookies best year was during the year we are being investigated for sign stealing).
    FWIW, the report is that he's looking for money just below Trout's ($420M/12yr vs $426M for Trout). Not that it matters; he's not worth that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    Does anyone actually believe that our current lineup and rotation with Betts and Price included had a realistic chance to win the World Series? It was a long shot at best where we would have had to pray that Sale, Price and Eovaldi all stayed healthy and rebounded. Even then was our bullpen just going to magically turn it around? I dont anticipate this season would have been much better than last year with no manager in the place and the potential distraction of the sign stealing controversy depending on the outcome of that investigation.
    I hate seeing Betts leave but generally agree with what you're saying here. Bullpens are mercurial and it's not unlikely that the Red Sox pen has a significant upswing in 2020. But the rest? The rotation wasn't great and that affected the BP. The managerial situation is a disaster. There are strong negatives flowing against the team and I honestly can see the sign stealing fallout influencing the deal (as in, "we're taking it on the chin let's just reset everything and build for the future"). Not saying that I agree, only that I can understand how it could happen.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    I hate seeing Betts leave but generally agree with what you're saying here. Bullpens are mercurial and it's not unlikely that the Red Sox pen has a significant upswing in 2020. But the rest? The rotation wasn't great and that affected the BP. The managerial situation is a disaster. There are strong negatives flowing against the team and I honestly can see the sign stealing fallout influencing the deal (as in, "we're taking it on the chin let's just reset everything and build for the future"). Not saying that I agree, only that I can understand how it could happen.
    I love Betts and hate seeing us lose him as well but $420 over 12 years is just begging to blow up in our face. If ownership was convinced he wasnt budging from that number then why waste a season trying to convince ourselves we had a shot at the WS and then lose him for a compensation pick that may get taken away for the sign stealing scandal anyways? I get that fans are not going to like that cost consious approach but the Dombrowski method of sacrificing the future to win now was not sustainable. My hope is that under Chaim Bloom we might get back to something that looked a little closer to the early Theo Epstein days and a strong farm system that produced the Lesters, Pedroia, Youkilis', Ellsburys and Papelbons. Then you fill in the gaps with some savy signings instead of constantly breaking the bank on biggest shiniest toy out there. If you look at history.... dynasties are built through developing your stars internally. Not through high priced free agents.

    Blood, Sweat and Beards!!!!!

  8. #128
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    The "professional" reviews on the trade seem to be pretty polar. On one side, are the "baseball people" who are burning the Sox. Their view is pretty simple: there's no acceptable reason for a big market team to trade a player like Betts. This group would not have been satisfied unless the Red Sox got back Trout so... whatever. On the other end, the group who accept that business decisions are baseball decisions too seem to think that the Red Sox did pretty well with the package that finally came back.

    Verdugo has some "maturity issues" which were noted to be as drastic as "he doesn't always run out ground balls." Okay, neither did Ortiz. Perhaps the issues will become more evident as he spends time in BOS and we get to see him more. He's reportedly a legitimate defender in the OF with solid bat-to-ball skills and line drive swing. If you watch his swing, then you'll be reminded of the guy who has manned LF for the past couple of seasons. He should generate a lot of doubles to left and a decent HR total when he pulls to the Pesky Pole. Could be a solid .300 hitter (sorry, Old School I know) with room to add some HR totals if he develops a little more loft in his swing. JDM could help.

    Jeter Downs is a top MLB prospect, although whether he's at the top of the middle-third of your top 100 or bottom third depends on who you ask. Solid defender at SS but reportedly filling out a la Jean Segura so he's likely to move to either 2B or 3B. His selling point is his bat and that will make him very valuable at an up-the-middle position. Since he's a much better defender than Chavis, the latter is probably going to end up in rotation duty or the super utility role. Here's hoping that Pedroia can coach him from Arizona; his heir apparent is finally here. His ETA seems to be late 2020 or 2021.

    Colton Wong is, well, maybe just something extra. The Sox at least got a third prospect. I can only imagine that they like Wong for his versatility. He developed as a SS and switched to catcher out of organizational need in college. He's continued to play around the infield while getting reps behind the plate in the minors. The idea of a versatile defender who can serve as a second or third catcher is pretty intriguing. (As a general thought, not saying Wong is a huge steal). He hit for a lot of power last year but that might have a lot to do with the league he played in.

    None of these guys are Betts. Or Price. But they also don't get paid to be. If Verdugo's limited MLB time rates out over full seasons in MLB, he could be a 4-5 WAR guy making $500K. You need those bargains to build out a winning roster. If he's a 20-25HR guy with solid defense in RF, then is the difference between him and Mookie acceptable for a $25M-35M savings? Probably.

    The Red Sox will be worse without Betts and Price. It'll be an interesting question to see how much worse though. Price is a solid pitcher when he's healthy. Unfortunately, that's a small sample out of all his time in BOS. Betts is the guy who's a bit more than the sum of his individual stats given his locker room presence and even off-field stuff. The impact of their loss may be greater a simple dotted-line between the numbers that either one produced.

    My guess is that the Sox are better than the doomsday scenarios of many local fans and talking heads (or click-bait trolls). The Sox don't need to do a full-scale reboot this year. A fringe team to the WC2 isn't impossible to see if everything breaks right but more likely they're building a positive base for future contention. They have a few expiring deals that will give them additional wiggle room next year. A wise investment or two could get them right back into the upper echelon.

    One scenario that I'm wondering about is what the Sox would look like with Chavis in LF and Benintendi/Verdugo in CF/RF (not sure which where). Adding Bradley's salary to the "cap space" beyond 2020 could give the Sox room for a difference making impact down the road.
    Last edited by RedSoxtober; 02-11-2020 at 03:52 PM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzg32 View Post
    I beleive Martinez has another couple of opt-outs at the end of this year and the next, if he doesn't think the Red Sox are going to compete in the near term he also has more incentives to exercise them... They should trade him before the deadline and get something in return; otherwise he's going to be a FA at the end of the season
    The number of suitors is going to be AL teams that need a DH, I'm not sure how many that is, or how much they'll give up for him.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    The "professional" reviews on the trade seem to be pretty polar. On one side, are the "baseball people" who are burning the Sox. Their view is pretty simple: there's no acceptable reason for a big market team to trade a player like Betts. This group would not have been satisfied unless the Red Sox got back Trout so... whatever. On the other end, the group who accept that business decisions are baseball decisions too seem to think that the Red Sox did pretty well with the package that finally came back.

    Verdugo has some "maturity issues" which were noted to be as drastic as "he doesn't always run out ground balls." Okay, neither did Ortiz. Perhaps the issues will become more evident as he spends time in BOS and we get to see him more. He's reportedly a legitimate defender in the OF with solid bat-to-ball skills and line drive swing. If you watch his swing, then you'll be reminded of the guy who has manned LF for the past couple of seasons. He should generate a lot of doubles to left and a decent HR total when he pulls to the Pesky Pole. Could be a solid .300 hitter (sorry, Old School I know) with room to add some HR totals if he develops a little more loft in his swing. JDM could help.

    Jeter Downs is a top MLB prospect, although whether he's at the top of the middle-third of your top 100 or bottom third depends on who you ask. Solid defender at SS but reportedly filling out a la Jean Segura so he's likely to move to either 2B or 3B. His selling point is his bat and that will make him very valuable at an up-the-middle position. Since he's a much better defender than Chavis, the latter is probably going to end up in rotation duty or the super utility role. Here's hoping that Pedroia can coach him from Arizona; his heir apparent is finally here. His ETA seems to be late 2020 or 2021.

    Colton Wong is, well, maybe just something extra. The Sox at least got a third prospect. I can only imagine that they like Wong for his versatility. He developed as a SS and switched to catcher out of organizational need in college. He's continued to play around the infield while getting reps behind the plate in the minors. The idea of a versatile defender who can serve as a second or third catcher is pretty intriguing. (As a general thought, not saying Wong is a huge steal). He hit for a lot of power last year but that might have a lot to do with the league he played in.

    None of these guys are Betts. Or Price. But they also don't get paid to be. If Verdugo's limited MLB time rates out over full seasons in MLB, he could be a 4-5 WAR guy making $500K. You need those bargains to build out a winning roster. If he's a 20-25HR guy with solid defense in RF, then is the difference between him and Mookie acceptable for a $25M-35M savings? Probably.

    The Red Sox will be worse without Betts and Price. It'll be an interesting question to see how much worse though. Price is a solid pitcher when he's healthy. Unfortunately, that's a small sample out of all his time in BOS. Betts is the guy who's a bit more than the sum of his individual stats given his locker room presence and even off-field stuff. The impact of their loss may be greater a simple dotted-line between the numbers that either one produced.

    My guess is that the Sox are better than the doomsday scenarios of many local fans and talking heads (or click-bait trolls). The Sox don't need to do a full-scale reboot this year. A fringe team to the WC2 isn't impossible to see if everything breaks right but more likely they're building a positive base for future contention. They have a few expiring deals that will give them additional wiggle room next year. A wise investment or two could get them right back into the upper echelon.

    One scenario that I'm wondering about is what the Sox would look like with Chavis in LF and Benintendi/Verdugo in CF/RF (not sure which where). Adding Bradley's salary to the "cap space" beyond 2020 could give the Sox room for a difference making impact down the road.
    Well, he was also allegedly present for the sexual assault of a minor by a teammate in the minors, and at the very least had knowledge of it going on.

    One problem with the trade is they didn't get any good young pitchers which the still need. That was the whole point of getting Gaterol.

  11. #131
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    419
    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    The "professional" reviews on the trade seem to be pretty polar. On one side, are the "baseball people" who are burning the Sox. Their view is pretty simple: there's no acceptable reason for a big market team to trade a player like Betts. This group would not have been satisfied unless the Red Sox got back Trout so... whatever. On the other end, the group who accept that business decisions are baseball decisions too seem to think that the Red Sox did pretty well with the package that finally came back.

    Verdugo has some "maturity issues" which were noted to be as drastic as "he doesn't always run out ground balls." Okay, neither did Ortiz. Perhaps the issues will become more evident as he spends time in BOS and we get to see him more. He's reportedly a legitimate defender in the OF with solid bat-to-ball skills and line drive swing. If you watch his swing, then you'll be reminded of the guy who has manned LF for the past couple of seasons. He should generate a lot of doubles to left and a decent HR total when he pulls to the Pesky Pole. Could be a solid .300 hitter (sorry, Old School I know) with room to add some HR totals if he develops a little more loft in his swing. JDM could help.

    Jeter Downs is a top MLB prospect, although whether he's at the top of the middle-third of your top 100 or bottom third depends on who you ask. Solid defender at SS but reportedly filling out a la Jean Segura so he's likely to move to either 2B or 3B. His selling point is his bat and that will make him very valuable at an up-the-middle position. Since he's a much better defender than Chavis, the latter is probably going to end up in rotation duty or the super utility role. Here's hoping that Pedroia can coach him from Arizona; his heir apparent is finally here. His ETA seems to be late 2020 or 2021.

    Colton Wong is, well, maybe just something extra. The Sox at least got a third prospect. I can only imagine that they like Wong for his versatility. He developed as a SS and switched to catcher out of organizational need in college. He's continued to play around the infield while getting reps behind the plate in the minors. The idea of a versatile defender who can serve as a second or third catcher is pretty intriguing. (As a general thought, not saying Wong is a huge steal). He hit for a lot of power last year but that might have a lot to do with the league he played in.

    None of these guys are Betts. Or Price. But they also don't get paid to be. If Verdugo's limited MLB time rates out over full seasons in MLB, he could be a 4-5 WAR guy making $500K. You need those bargains to build out a winning roster. If he's a 20-25HR guy with solid defense in RF, then is the difference between him and Mookie acceptable for a $25M-35M savings? Probably.

    The Red Sox will be worse without Betts and Price. It'll be an interesting question to see how much worse though. Price is a solid pitcher when he's healthy. Unfortunately, that's a small sample out of all his time in BOS. Betts is the guy who's a bit more than the sum of his individual stats given his locker room presence and even off-field stuff. The impact of their loss may be greater a simple dotted-line between the numbers that either one produced.

    My guess is that the Sox are better than the doomsday scenarios of many local fans and talking heads (or click-bait trolls). The Sox don't need to do a full-scale reboot this year. A fringe team to the WC2 isn't impossible to see if everything breaks right but more likely they're building a positive base for future contention. They have a few expiring deals that will give them additional wiggle room next year. A wise investment or two could get them right back into the upper echelon.

    One scenario that I'm wondering about is what the Sox would look like with Chavis in LF and Benintendi/Verdugo in CF/RF (not sure which where). Adding Bradley's salary to the "cap space" beyond 2020 could give the Sox room for a difference making impact down the road.
    The MLB and Dodgers didn't care about the maturity issues but now they trade him to the Red Sox it all of a sudden becomes a big deal. I couldn't care less.

  12. #132
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    Kevin Pillar is close to a Red Sox deal. Boston needed righty hitting OF. Plus Pillar allows them to maintain excellent OF defense following loss of superstar Mookie.
    Source: Jon Heyman

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soxfan85 View Post
    Source: Jon Heyman
    They should sign Puig instead, he's also a great defender, and he is super fun.

  14. #134
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    Sep 2009
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    13,369
    Iím so unenthusiastic about baseball coming back, but if the Red Sox picked up Puig Iíd be all in.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #135
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    Jul 2011
    Posts
    130
    Does anybody know what happened with E-Rod's arbitration hearing?

    IIRC it was supposed to be held yesterday, but I haven't seen or heard any news about its outcome or if they reached a settlement before...

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