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  1. #6916
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Garden of Eden...New Jersey
    Posts
    16,156
    We're not winning a championship with this crew. Tear it down, maximize draft assets and lose anyone who isn't going to be part of the solution a couple seasons down the line. Playoff possibilities don't excite me, I want a team that is built to win it all.

    Gruden is a disaster, he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I know this design will be around for next season and that this conversation will be happening all over again....its insanity. Screen doors on submarines.

    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?

    Hope '21 is starting out alright for you folks. Hang in there, the ride is going to be bumpy.

    -Stork
    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  2. #6917
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,019
    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    We're not winning a championship with this crew. Tear it down, maximize draft assets and lose anyone who isn't going to be part of the solution a couple seasons down the line. Playoff possibilities don't excite me, I want a team that is built to win it all.

    Gruden is a disaster, he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I know this design will be around for next season and that this conversation will be happening all over again....its insanity. Screen doors on submarines.

    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?

    Hope '21 is starting out alright for you folks. Hang in there, the ride is going to be bumpy.

    -Stork
    Good to see you back Stork.

  3. #6918
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    17,780
    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?
    I've seen Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Nick Foles win SB's. I've seen Doug Peterson, Brian Billick, Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak win a Superbowl. Anything is possible.

    Additionally, let's grapple with reality: this franchise is still rebuilding. The depths of the Davis era are still being felt. The Raiders still need to wash the stink of failure / irrelevance off of them. 8-8 seasons aren't the best, but they're not laughingstock territory.

    In short: playoffs are the priority for now. Crawl --> Walk --> Run.

    Keep building around Carr, and then find your athlete to take over, ala Pat Mahomes.

  4. #6919
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Garden of Eden...New Jersey
    Posts
    16,156
    I admire your positivity Shred, but I very much don't agree. There is something very rotten about the core of this team....been rotten for a long time. It'll continue to fester.

    -Stork
    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  5. #6920
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,019
    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    I've seen Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Nick Foles win SB's. I've seen Doug Peterson, Brian Billick, Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak win a Superbowl. Anything is possible.

    Additionally, let's grapple with reality: this franchise is still rebuilding. The depths of the Davis era are still being felt. The Raiders still need to wash the stink of failure / irrelevance off of them. 8-8 seasons aren't the best, but they're not laughingstock territory.

    In short: playoffs are the priority for now. Crawl --> Walk --> Run.

    Keep building around Carr, and then find your athlete to take over, ala Pat Mahomes.
    I'll probably take a little flak for this but what not add Marc Trestman the the staff? I always felt that he had a great feel for the game (more so than Gruden). The perpetual state of rebuilding has been going far too long. Dynasties have risen and fell in such time.

    Has Gruden ever oversaw a rebuild? I guess you can consider the 8-8, 8-8, 12-4 and 10-6 progression from 1998-2001 a rebuild-who knows where it would have gone? He has trended upward since he was hired the second time but and looking back in the last decade of an offensive driven league, the teams have rebounded from 3-13 and 4-12 to playoff contenders in less than two years all have one thing in common-strong defenses.

    Despite my off season rants to the contrary I think this team can contend with a good defense and a more imaginative play caller. Maybe even exercise the Davis curse that has plagued this team for a long, long time. Which I agree is very real.
    Last edited by Proximo; Yesterday at 07:00 PM.

  6. #6921
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    17,780
    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    I admire your positivity Shred, but I very much don't agree. There is something very rotten about the core of this team....been rotten for a long time. It'll continue to fester.

    -Stork
    Positivity is a bit of an exaggeration. We have what we have.

    I'm not blind. Gruden is flawed. He's not into dreams, he's into nightmares. He's a TV personality He's got his son on the staff, FFS.

    I also worry that Mark Davis is impulsive, petulant and illogical. He held Carr's injury in '16 against JDR, which is just silly. He admits giving Reggie directives on personnel, specificially to find him "two corners."

    None of this is ideal, but things are substantially brighter today than they were under Callahan, Turner, Shell, Kiffin, Jackson, Allen and Sporano.

    Sadly, the Raiders had two coaches who exhibited actual leadership, Cable and Del Rio. Both got the boot, each needing just one more season to get things really on track, IMO.

    Ultimately, this is the team I support. I can either be pessimistic and miserable, or optimistic and (ultimately) miserable.

  7. #6922
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Posts
    3,980
    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    We're not winning a championship with this crew. Tear it down, maximize draft assets and lose anyone who isn't going to be part of the solution a couple seasons down the line. Playoff possibilities don't excite me, I want a team that is built to win it all.

    Gruden is a disaster, he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I know this design will be around for next season and that this conversation will be happening all over again....its insanity. Screen doors on submarines.

    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?

    Hope '21 is starting out alright for you folks. Hang in there, the ride is going to be bumpy.

    -Stork
    Glad to have ya back and hope youíve been good.

    Getting a foot in the door of the playoffs begins a completely different season IMO.

    If you sneak in at 9-7 or go 15-1 itís one and done.

    Especially seeing us beat the Chiefs earlier in the season.

    If you can make it to the post season- anything can happen.

    Either way you are right that we have a broken foundation or rottenness.

  8. #6923
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,724
    I canít believe this is a conversation.
    We were 8-8 and had the 30th ranked d.

    Even if we get to be a top 20 d, we can win a lot of games. The d has to make stops. Thatís about it.

    Trent dilfer won a Super Bowl.
    Crap Bradshaw won a Super Bowl after throwing 17 tds and 24 ints.

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