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  1. #6916
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    Feb 2007
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    We're not winning a championship with this crew. Tear it down, maximize draft assets and lose anyone who isn't going to be part of the solution a couple seasons down the line. Playoff possibilities don't excite me, I want a team that is built to win it all.

    Gruden is a disaster, he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I know this design will be around for next season and that this conversation will be happening all over again....its insanity. Screen doors on submarines.

    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?

    Hope '21 is starting out alright for you folks. Hang in there, the ride is going to be bumpy.

    -Stork
    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  2. #6917
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    7,066
    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    We're not winning a championship with this crew. Tear it down, maximize draft assets and lose anyone who isn't going to be part of the solution a couple seasons down the line. Playoff possibilities don't excite me, I want a team that is built to win it all.

    Gruden is a disaster, he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I know this design will be around for next season and that this conversation will be happening all over again....its insanity. Screen doors on submarines.

    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?

    Hope '21 is starting out alright for you folks. Hang in there, the ride is going to be bumpy.

    -Stork
    Good to see you back Stork.

  3. #6918
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?
    I've seen Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Nick Foles win SB's. I've seen Doug Peterson, Brian Billick, Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak win a Superbowl. Anything is possible.

    Additionally, let's grapple with reality: this franchise is still rebuilding. The depths of the Davis era are still being felt. The Raiders still need to wash the stink of failure / irrelevance off of them. 8-8 seasons aren't the best, but they're not laughingstock territory.

    In short: playoffs are the priority for now. Crawl --> Walk --> Run.

    Keep building around Carr, and then find your athlete to take over, ala Pat Mahomes.

  4. #6919
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    Feb 2007
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    I admire your positivity Shred, but I very much don't agree. There is something very rotten about the core of this team....been rotten for a long time. It'll continue to fester.

    -Stork
    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  5. #6920
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    Jan 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shred003 View Post
    I've seen Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Nick Foles win SB's. I've seen Doug Peterson, Brian Billick, Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak win a Superbowl. Anything is possible.

    Additionally, let's grapple with reality: this franchise is still rebuilding. The depths of the Davis era are still being felt. The Raiders still need to wash the stink of failure / irrelevance off of them. 8-8 seasons aren't the best, but they're not laughingstock territory.

    In short: playoffs are the priority for now. Crawl --> Walk --> Run.

    Keep building around Carr, and then find your athlete to take over, ala Pat Mahomes.
    I'll probably take a little flak for this but what not add Marc Trestman the the staff? I always felt that he had a great feel for the game (more so than Gruden). The perpetual state of rebuilding has been going far too long. Dynasties have risen and fallen in such time.

    Has Gruden ever oversaw a rebuild? I guess you can consider the 8-8, 8-8, 12-4 and 10-6 progression from 1998-2001 a rebuild-who knows where it would have gone? He has trended upward since he was hired the second time but and looking back in the last decade of an offensive driven league, the teams have rebounded from 3-13 and 4-12 to playoff contenders in less than two years all have one thing in common-strong defenses.

    Despite my off season rants to the contrary I think this team can contend with a good defense and a more imaginative play caller. Maybe even exercise the Davis curse that has plagued this team for a long, long time. Which I agree is very real.
    Last edited by Proximo; 01-17-2021 at 01:31 PM.

  6. #6921
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    I admire your positivity Shred, but I very much don't agree. There is something very rotten about the core of this team....been rotten for a long time. It'll continue to fester.

    -Stork
    Positivity is a bit of an exaggeration. We have what we have.

    I'm not blind. Gruden is flawed. He's not into dreams, he's into nightmares. He's a TV personality He's got his son on the staff, FFS.

    I also worry that Mark Davis is impulsive, petulant and illogical. He held Carr's injury in '16 against JDR, which is just silly. He admits giving Reggie directives on personnel, specificially to find him "two corners."

    None of this is ideal, but things are substantially brighter today than they were under Callahan, Turner, Shell, Kiffin, Jackson, Allen and Sporano.

    Sadly, the Raiders had two coaches who exhibited actual leadership, Cable and Del Rio. Both got the boot, each needing just one more season to get things really on track, IMO.

    Ultimately, this is the team I support. I can either be pessimistic and miserable, or optimistic and (ultimately) miserable.

  7. #6922
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    Sep 2010
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    Indianapolis, Indiana
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    3,987
    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    We're not winning a championship with this crew. Tear it down, maximize draft assets and lose anyone who isn't going to be part of the solution a couple seasons down the line. Playoff possibilities don't excite me, I want a team that is built to win it all.

    Gruden is a disaster, he's got to go. Don't get me wrong, I know this design will be around for next season and that this conversation will be happening all over again....its insanity. Screen doors on submarines.

    The Carr conversation is stale, we all know how we all feel. Some see possibility, some do not. However, in your heart of hearts, in that conversation with yourself that no one else can hear or judge you over, I doubt there is anyone here who feels Carr will lead us to a championship. So what's the point?

    Hope '21 is starting out alright for you folks. Hang in there, the ride is going to be bumpy.

    -Stork
    Glad to have ya back and hope youíve been good.

    Getting a foot in the door of the playoffs begins a completely different season IMO.

    If you sneak in at 9-7 or go 15-1 itís one and done.

    Especially seeing us beat the Chiefs earlier in the season.

    If you can make it to the post season- anything can happen.

    Either way you are right that we have a broken foundation or rottenness.

  8. #6923
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    Nov 2007
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    Los Angeles
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    2,873
    I canít believe this is a conversation.
    We were 8-8 and had the 30th ranked d.

    Even if we get to be a top 20 d, we can win a lot of games. The d has to make stops. Thatís about it.

    Trent dilfer won a Super Bowl.
    Crap Bradshaw won a Super Bowl after throwing 17 tds and 24 ints.

  9. #6924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post
    I canít believe this is a conversation.
    We were 8-8 and had the 30th ranked d.

    Even if we get to be a top 20 d, we can win a lot of games. The d has to make stops. Thatís about it.

    Trent dilfer won a Super Bowl.
    Crap Bradshaw won a Super Bowl after throwing 17 tds and 24 ints.
    Both did with legendary defenses to be fair. And Eli Manning won with a defense that got hot at the right time. Think the latter is more likely scenario for the Raiders if they were to win.



    "..And then the Raiders drafted the Knight in Shining Armor Prince Quarterback. Then they went on to win the Super Bowl. All the women in the kingdom cheered and they lived happily ever after...""

  10. #6925
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    Feb 2006
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    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog2683 View Post
    Both did with legendary defenses to be fair. And Eli Manning won with a defense that got hot at the right time. Think the latter is more likely scenario for the Raiders if they were to win.
    As I'm watching the playoffs, I keep asking myself: Can Carr win with this team?

    Possibly: Rams, Packers, Saints, Colts
    Definitely: Ravens, Chiefs

    I.e. -- Given playoff caliber talent, I'm confident Carr would produce playoff caliber results, just like he did in '16. Given an average defense, the Raiders are a playoff team.

    That said, I'm even more confident Deshaun Watson could get the same / better results, and if it's just 2 first round picks and a pro-bowler (like Carr) I think it could be swung ...

  11. #6926
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    Given the track record, this continued optimism regarding Carr, the playoffs and championship potential is an utter mystery to me. He's an easy puzzle to solve....and Gruden is exacerbating those tendencies.

    This group will get torn down before long and we certainly will not be sniffing a ring beforehand. Cut the corner, save a year or two...do it now.

    -Stork
    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  12. #6927
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by themadstork View Post
    Given the track record, this continued optimism regarding Carr, the playoffs and championship potential is an utter mystery to me. He's an easy puzzle to solve....and Gruden is exacerbating those tendencies.

    This group will get torn down before long and we certainly will not be sniffing a ring beforehand. Cut the corner, save a year or two...do it now.

    -Stork
    Lol

    How's McGloin doing? You obviously have poor QB judgement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Carr may very well be the worst starting QB in Raiders history. Carr is like a root canal that takes 8 hrs. The Raiders have stuck with this bum going on 7 seasons! All they have to show for it is excuses. I hope Mariorta runs him out of training camp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Sounds as though Mayock is waxing the Pinto and installing fake leather seat covers and chrome hubcaps before posting it on Craigslist.

  13. #6928
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    Trade him for Watson. Problem solved.

  14. #6929
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    Aug 2017
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    Here is a quick fact. Matt McGloin has the same number of playoff wins as Derek Carr. I swear there is only ONE guy in here who posts, and if you take the time to read one of his worthless posts, you end up being a dumber person than you were before you read is verbal diarrhea. Clueless!!!!!


    Iím also for getting rid of Gruden and moving on from the so called draft expert who is drafting and signing our free agents.

  15. #6930
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    Quote Originally Posted by maledicent View Post
    Here is a quick fact. Matt McGloin has the same number of playoff wins as Derek Carr. I swear there is only ONE guy in here who posts, and if you take the time to read one of his worthless posts, you end up being a dumber person than you were before you read is verbal diarrhea. Clueless!!!!!


    Iím also for getting rid of Gruden and moving on from the so called draft expert who is drafting and signing our free agents.
    So by that logic McGloin is just as good as Carr. Gotcha. I definitely feel smarter now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Carr may very well be the worst starting QB in Raiders history. Carr is like a root canal that takes 8 hrs. The Raiders have stuck with this bum going on 7 seasons! All they have to show for it is excuses. I hope Mariorta runs him out of training camp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proximo View Post
    Sounds as though Mayock is waxing the Pinto and installing fake leather seat covers and chrome hubcaps before posting it on Craigslist.

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