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  1. #346
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    When I see Sam Darnold, I see a guy who, on the downside, clearly tries to do too much, struggles protecting the football, and hes been very inconsistent showing up big only in flashes going back to USC.

    But I also see a guy who, on the plus side, is still very young and has a little of everything you need to be a top tier QB: a big arm even if its not a canon; mobility, even if hes not a mobile QB; big and strong, even if hes not Big Ben. Hes also been hampered by a bad coach with bad/misused weapons.

    I think theres a lot of upside, especially in a system like Shanahans where theres generally so much space that you just have to put the ball on the open receiver to let him work. Hes not going to be asked to consistently put the ball into tight holes downfield in 1v1, but he has some of that ability.

    I read an article earlier this year saying JG has a bad rap on his downfield throws and that, statistically, hes actually one of the most efficient in the league at doing it...

    But, Im sure youd agree when you watch the games, on most of the plays where hes throwing 20+ yards, hes had the benefit of throwing to receivers that have been schemed WIDE OPEN, or hes the beneficiary of a 50/50 play made by the receiver. He rarely hits receivers in stride on a post or fly route - hes just not that guy.

    I think, in this scheme, Sam Darnold might be equal to Jimmy G in many ways but with the ability to take the top off a defense by hitting receivers in stride - IMO, that alone would make a huge difference.

  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by downsos View Post
    I think the past few games are why Jimmy might come back next year. All this team needs is average QB play and they stomp the Rams and probably beat the Saints. I also don't see how the players on this team would be ok with a Darnold/Taylor/2nd round QB combo if they feel like they're a playoff team without injuries.

    Also can someone explain the Darnold love? I know he has a bad coach, but the dude just sucks. I don't get it. I think his ceiling is what Jimmy has given us.


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    Darnold literally has all the tools to be a very good Qb in this league. Hes accurate, strongbarm, mobile. He has absolutely no talent around him and arguably the BBC worst coach ever
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  3. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    When I see Sam Darnold, I see a guy who, on the downside, clearly tries to do too much, struggles protecting the football, and hes been very inconsistent showing up big only in flashes going back to USC.

    But I also see a guy who, on the plus side, is still very young and has a little of everything you need to be a top tier QB: a big arm even if its not a canon; mobility, even if hes not a mobile QB; big and strong, even if hes not Big Ben. Hes also been hampered by a bad coach with bad/misused weapons.

    I think theres a lot of upside, especially in a system like Shanahans where theres generally so much space that you just have to put the ball on the open receiver to let him work. Hes not going to be asked to consistently put the ball into tight holes downfield in 1v1, but he has some of that ability.

    I read an article earlier this year saying JG has a bad rap on his downfield throws and that, statistically, hes actually one of the most efficient in the league at doing it...

    But, Im sure youd agree when you watch the games, on most of the plays where hes throwing 20+ yards, hes had the benefit of throwing to receivers that have been schemed WIDE OPEN, or hes the beneficiary of a 50/50 play made by the receiver. He rarely hits receivers in stride on a post or fly route - hes just not that guy.

    I think, in this scheme, Sam Darnold might be equal to Jimmy G in many ways but with the ability to take the top off a defense by hitting receivers in stride - IMO, that alone would make a huge difference.
    Love this. He also wont cost 30 million dollars
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Darnold literally has all the tools to be a very good Qb in this league. Hes accurate, strongbarm, mobile. He has absolutely no talent around him and arguably the BBC worst coach ever
    Tyrod Taylor is a decent Qb. He takes care of the ball and can make all the throws. I think he'd be a very good fit and he would be cheap
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  5. #350
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    We'll just have to agree to disagree with Darnold. I just see it being a tough sale to some guys that we could potentially resign with that cap money. If this team loses out it makes that decision a lot easier, but if the team misses the playoff by just a game or they somehow make the playoffs and lose a tight game it's going to be hard to convince guys like Sherm, Verrett, Williams to come back while we wait and see Darnold show something he hasn't shown ever or this rookie who may or may not be good and you will probably have to wait another year for that ring cuz rookie QBs almost never win.


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  6. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by downsos View Post
    We'll just have to agree to disagree with Darnold. I just see it being a tough sale to some guys that we could potentially resign with that cap money. If this team loses out it makes that decision a lot easier, but if the team misses the playoff by just a game or they somehow make the playoffs and lose a tight game it's going to be hard to convince guys like Sherm, Verrett, Williams to come back while we wait and see Darnold show something he hasn't shown ever or this rookie who may or may not be good and you will probably have to wait another year for that ring cuz rookie QBs almost never win.


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    If thats a real concern for those FAs then I dont know how you answer that question regardless.

    Even if you can trust the confidence in JG that the players convey publicly, the guy has missed 18 of 48 potential starts since hes taken the reigns and theres no one with a better pedigree walking through the door next year. We could trade a boatload to get into the top 5 but wed be relying on a rookie and, very likely, one thats not named Trevor Lawrence.

    So it appears what youre suggesting is that were sort of stuck with JG for next year for the benefit of retaining our free agents.

    One possible solution is to void his contract and sign him back on a prove-it deal. The problem with that approach is that, if we are in fact stuck with him as the best option for the benefit of retaining our FAs (which I dont believe is the case), then hed have to know that we are looking for competition for him and, if hes treated that way, I could see him just hightailing it back to New England. Ultimately, this means the best option for retaining him and bringing in competition would be to pick up his two remaining years which would pay him $30M each year and trigger his NTC - this would not be wise, IMO.

    For what its worth, I believe via trade, Darnold would essentially cost us his base salary of roughly of $920k (EDIT:and $3.8M roster bonus) - but Im no expert on the cap.

    EDIT: Base + Roster Bonus = $4.9M
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 12-02-2020 at 02:15 AM.

  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    If thats a real concern for those FAs then I dont know how you answer that question regardless.

    Even if you can trust the confidence in JG that the players convey publicly, the guy has missed 18 of 48 potential starts since hes taken the reigns and theres no one with a better pedigree walking through the door next year. We could trade a boatload to get into the top 5 but wed be relying on a rookie and, very likely, one thats not named Trevor Lawrence.

    So it appears what youre suggesting is that were sort of stuck with JG for next year for the benefit of retaining our free agents.

    One possible solution is to void his contract and sign him back on a prove-it deal. The problem with that approach is that, if we are in fact stuck with him as the best option for the benefit of retaining our FAs (which I dont believe is the case), then hed have to know that we are looking for competition for him and, if hes treated that way, I could see him just hightailing it back to New England. Ultimately, this means the best option for retaining him and bringing in competition would be to pick up his two remaining years which would pay him $30M each year and trigger his NTC - this would not be wise, IMO.

    For what its worth, I believe via trade, Darnold would essentially cost us his base salary of roughly of $920k (EDIT:and $3.8M roster bonus) - but Im no expert on the cap.

    EDIT: Base + Roster Bonus = $4.9M
    Yup you are correct on the numbers. If it takes keeping JG to keep those FAs then I guess we dont need those FAs. We won 2 playoff games with JG doing absolutely nothing. We then were winning a superbowl with JG doing nothing, then for some reason we put the ball in JG hands and we lost. We need someone else that is cheap and build a team rather than hope JG can figure it out
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  8. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    If thats a real concern for those FAs then I dont know how you answer that question regardless.

    Even if you can trust the confidence in JG that the players convey publicly, the guy has missed 18 of 48 potential starts since hes taken the reigns and theres no one with a better pedigree walking through the door next year. We could trade a boatload to get into the top 5 but wed be relying on a rookie and, very likely, one thats not named Trevor Lawrence.

    So it appears what youre suggesting is that were sort of stuck with JG for next year for the benefit of retaining our free agents.

    One possible solution is to void his contract and sign him back on a prove-it deal. The problem with that approach is that, if we are in fact stuck with him as the best option for the benefit of retaining our FAs (which I dont believe is the case), then hed have to know that we are looking for competition for him and, if hes treated that way, I could see him just hightailing it back to New England. Ultimately, this means the best option for retaining him and bringing in competition would be to pick up his two remaining years which would pay him $30M each year and trigger his NTC - this would not be wise, IMO.

    For what its worth, I believe via trade, Darnold would essentially cost us his base salary of roughly of $920k (EDIT:and $3.8M roster bonus) - but Im no expert on the cap.

    EDIT: Base + Roster Bonus = $4.9M
    I'm just playing devils advocate. I'm all for getting a new QB mainly because of the availability issue with JG. I just think it's going to be a tough sale to keep the good players from leaving and if the option is JG and bring back some players with money freed up elsewhere from players like Ford or bring in a Darnold and don't resign key FA then I probably keep JG. Hopefully this team either wins out and we don't care or we lose out and it makes it easier to cut bait with JG and get one in the draft. But if we have to trade a boatload to get Trey Lance then I'm fine with it.


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  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by downsos View Post
    I'm just playing devils advocate. I'm all for getting a new QB mainly because of the availability issue with JG. I just think it's going to be a tough sale to keep the good players from leaving and if the option is JG and bring back some players with money freed up elsewhere from players like Ford or bring in a Darnold and don't resign key FA then I probably keep JG. Hopefully this team either wins out and we don't care or we lose out and it makes it easier to cut bait with JG and get one in the draft. But if we have to trade a boatload to get Trey Lance then I'm fine with it.


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    Isn't Ford owed a ton of money? We would eat more than like 15 million dollars
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Isn't Ford owed a ton of money? We would eat more than like 15 million dollars
    Yeah, before June 1, its a 16M dead cap... His post June 1st number is a lot more tolerable, but hits us over two years and wed miss the advantage of capitalizing during the free agency period. Almost seems better to bring him back and pray for better health.

    If were still resigned to moving him after June 1st, Im sure we could get something back since hed be that much cheaper to the receiving team and, honestly, the dude is a freak when healthy

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Yeah, before June 1, its a 16M dead cap... His post June 1st number is a lot more tolerable, but hits us over two years and wed miss the advantage of capitalizing during the free agency period. Almost seems better to bring him back and pray for better health.

    If were still resigned to moving him after June 1st, Im sure we could get something back since hed be that much cheaper to the receiving team and, honestly, the dude is a freak when healthy
    Hes never healthy though. I was annoyed when we got him and even more now
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Hes never healthy though. I was annoyed when we got him and even more now
    Yeah, its plainly a bad contract. I was actually pretty stoked (and hopeful) when we got him, the contract remains the puzzling part. Clearly he has the ability to be worth it, but his health has always been a concern and it seems to be getting worse.

    Obviously at this point I wouldnt weep if we cut our losses on him, but Id hope hes worth enough that we can recoup some of our investment.

  13. #358
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    This is why I say the 49ers should get an Edge rusher in the off season just like Ford but without all the health questions.

  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hardcore View Post
    This is why I say the 49ers should get an Edge rusher in the off season just like Ford but without all the health questions.
    We can't afford it. I think Jordan Willis can do well opposite Bosa
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  15. #360
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    So... while the Saleh hire was not met with effusive praise, hes actually been very good for us...

    And now, with the dearth of coaching competence around the league - Gase, Pederson, Patricia (fired), Marrone, Nagy, Fangio, etc., Im sort of worried were going to lose him to an HC role somewhere (rumors of the Lions interest are circulating).

    I dont know that hes ready for something like that, and hed likely be headed for a bad situation wherever he goes, but that doesnt mean he wont be offered and/or wont accept.

    Maybe I need to be talked off a cliff here, but I think Saleh is becoming a great DC and it would suck to lose him.

    What do you guys think? Big deal or nah?

    Who could we replace him with that wont likely get/take an HC role elsewhere (NCAA included)?

    Maybe Patricia?

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