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Thread: Preseason

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    That's my issue with his entire off-season. He just did things to do things, rather than see what's out there.

    Subban is hands-down better than Braun or Niskanen. Hell, Fletcher probably could've just waited and brought in Gardiner for $4.25M AAV, kept the 2nd & 3rd he traded for Braun and used that to bring in another good prospect (more ammo for later) or player.
    Im glad he didn't bring in gardiner. We don't really need a guy like him. We needed guys who can play defense and solidify pairings/have pk duties to all guys like provorov/sanheim/ghost to do their thing. Should've just brought in subban, kept gudas, and gotten another veteran 4th line center (not boyle or shaehan, someone better) or 4th line rw.

    Can you imagine this team:

    g-couts-tk
    farabee-hayes-voracek
    jvr-patrick-libdblom
    cogliano-pageau-laughton
    nak

    provorov-subban/trouba
    sanheim-gudas
    ghost-myers
    morin

    i dont mind our 4th line of raffl-laughton-twarynski/pitlick but it can be better and we need to change our identity on the bottom 6--its been bad for years. I don't like elliot and would've loved to upgrade that position. Would've loved bernier a few years ago but we stuck with neuvy who got injured again and cut from the leafs. If fletcher wasn't able to get a guy like subban or trouba because he didn't want to give up frost, farabee, or ratcliffe I would get it but it seems like he didn't explore that option. Obviously we don't know but it would've been more satisfying if he made these moves after striking out on those guys lol. Easily would've given up ratcliffe, 1st rounder, hagg for a top pairing d, easily. You stack up our assets and our amazing "top 10" farm to make move that help in the short/long run. I disagree that we need a bonafide scorer and thats why we are where we are..maybe a few years ago but now we have one of the deepest fwd groups

    essentially:

    -we need our defense to be much much better or we will still suck
    -don't believe in elliot as much as i thought i would to be a capable backup for us (please prove me wrong lol)
    -patrick is really making me worried that he will be our new neuvy and not live up to his potential
    -our pp still looks bad as they still have g/voracek on the wrong side
    -pk looks better though

    If they are going to put giroux on the left side then at least put konecny in giroux's old position. If voracek had a one timer we easily would've just done what we always have (and we still should). Either put tk on g's spot or put g back and have ghost in voracek's spot for the one timer and sanheim at the top.

  2. #107
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    also another question is now arising:

    If they believe frost to be a center more so than a wing and he plays that position primarily in the ahl..what do we do with patrick if he doesn't develop? Do we move patrick to the wing or frost? Do we trade patrick? Minnesota is actively looking for a top 6 center. If frost does indeed develop as a center then we could've traded patrick for trouba even. Patrick and voracek would be an enticing duo to net a top line fwd. i dont know lol. I like our team right now but the fact that we are in the hunt with the rangers AND devils means we still aren't ahead of them RIGHT NOW. Both the devils and rangers pretty much have outmatched our moves and made them look terrible. We have the youth and better overall depth but still more question marks than them and thats sad

  3. #108
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    listen I think I was one of the few here that wasn't against the moves we made and do think we will have a chance to make the playoffs but don't think we are a top 5 eastern team. We still have to show that we are better and provve that our defense is capable. But we are still a ways away from being legit
    i think a lot of the marginal improvements that we made this offseason can add up to a very significant difference.

    our team rank last year:
    goals scored: 18th
    ES goals scored: 11th
    goals allowed: 29th
    ES goals allowed: 28th
    PP%: 23rd
    PK%: 26th


    starting with our PK:
    we added braun, niskanen and hayes (plus myers), and we should get a full season from hart.
    -- that could be a top 10 unit, now, but at the very least, it shouldn't be in the bottom 10 anymore.

    our PP:
    i'm not entirely sure about how this went wrong last year, but we have the raw talent to be successful.
    -- the PP should be solidly above average this year (8-15), and it has no business ranking in the bottom 10 again.

    ES goals scored:
    we didn't lose anyone of note, and we added hayes.
    -- maybe a slight regression, but we should be in the 2nd quartile again 7-15.

    ES goals allowed:
    niskanen and hayes should make a big difference here. depending on how much he has left, braun could have an effect here, too.
    -- i'd say we're likely to be in the middle 10.


    add it all up (again, this is not meant to be a rigorous analysis):
    ES goals scored: 10th (from 11th)
    ES goals allowed: 15th (from 28th)
    PP%: 10th (from 23rd)
    PK%: 15th (from 26th)
    goals scored: 12th (from 18th)
    goals allowed: 13th (from 29th)


    personally, i think those projections are likely to be pessimistic (we might be significantly better in a few of those areas, but we're not likely to be significantly worse in any of them), but i think it's a solid baseline for our expectations this season.

    we aren't as explosive as some people want us to be, but we also have no significant holes on the roster, or in our roster construction. this is a very solidly built team, even if it's not a great one.

  4. #109
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    If they believe frost to be a center more so than a wing and he plays that position primarily in the ahl..what do we do with patrick if he doesn't develop? Do we move patrick to the wing or frost?
    personally, i like the idea of moving both of them to the wing, and getting another 1A/1B center at some point (using some combination of voracek, provorov, lindblom, etc. as bait).

    patrick's speed and physicality could be very dangerous on the wing. moving him to the wing could also give us another faceoff platoon (a la giroux/couturier), to help us choke off possession.
    I like our team right now but the fact that we are in the hunt with the rangers AND devils means we still aren't ahead of them RIGHT NOW. Both the devils and rangers pretty much have outmatched our moves and made them look terrible.
    that didn't just happen in one summer. the rangers made tough decisions (trading mcdonough, nash, zuccarello, miller, hayes, stepan) that accelerated their rebuild; hextall chose not to make those kinds of decisions. hextall clung onto guys like striet and simmonds and voracek and mason and neuvirth until the death, instead of trading them when the team was going nowhere and there was value on the table.

  5. #110
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    Poor game by Hart today. The Flyers don't look ready.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    personally, i like the idea of moving both of them to the wing, and getting another 1A/1B center at some point (using some combination of voracek, provorov, lindblom, etc. as bait).

    patrick's speed and physicality could be very dangerous on the wing. moving him to the wing could also give us another faceoff platoon (a la giroux/couturier), to help us choke off possession.

    that didn't just happen in one summer. the rangers made tough decisions (trading mcdonough, nash, zuccarello, miller, hayes, stepan) that accelerated their rebuild; hextall chose not to make those kinds of decisions. hextall clung onto guys like striet and simmonds and voracek and mason and neuvirth until the death, instead of trading them when the team was going nowhere and there was value on the table.
    ya but most of the decisions that mattered for the rangers came this summer. Everything else was ok but they got lucky with kakko and the other pieces haven't helped them that much.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc27 View Post
    Poor game by Hart today. The Flyers don't look ready.
    whole team was flat. G had a good game but everyone else was pretty flat. Ghost just let a fwd skate in and get his OWN rebound. Unacceptable. THey left hart out to dry by screening him and letting players get open shots/rebounds

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    personally, i like the idea of moving both of them to the wing, and getting another 1A/1B center at some point (using some combination of voracek, provorov, lindblom, etc. as bait).

    patrick's speed and physicality could be very dangerous on the wing. moving him to the wing could also give us another faceoff platoon (a la giroux/couturier), to help us choke off possession.

    that didn't just happen in one summer. the rangers made tough decisions (trading mcdonough, nash, zuccarello, miller, hayes, stepan) that accelerated their rebuild; hextall chose not to make those kinds of decisions. hextall clung onto guys like striet and simmonds and voracek and mason and neuvirth until the death, instead of trading them when the team was going nowhere and there was value on the table.
    no. you trade Patrick. simple.

  9. #114
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    read the article bundy wrote...he is right. This is provorov's 4th year and we still haven't found him a suitable partner that he can jell with. Its crazy. Usually when you have a young defender come in, you immediately pair him with a top vet so that he can learn and have an eaSier path. It has been the opposite for him. Mcavoy was with chara, werenski with jones...provorov has been with amac, ghost for a while, sanheim, hagg, and maybe a few others. Get this guy a partner he can have for a few years man. Same for ghost and sanheim.

  10. #115
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    no. you trade Patrick. simple.
    trade patrick for what? he's had two mediocre seasons and he's a magnet for concussions, with the after-effects lingering for weeks/months after each new incident.
    ya but most of the decisions that mattered for the rangers came this summer. Everything else was ok but they got lucky with kakko and the other pieces haven't helped them that much.
    keep in mind, this is only year 3 of their rebuild (we're going on year 6 of ours -- IIRC, year 3 was the trade deadline of doom), so when you say 'the other pieces haven't helped them much', they just haven't had the time, since many of them can't even legally chainsmoke a carton of cigarettes yet.

    2/3rds of NYR's roster is younger than sean couturier; only 3 players on their opening day roster are over 30 (otoh, we'll have 8 players over 30 -- assuming raffl and stewart make the team).

    in year 3 of our rebuild, we were still ****ing around with guys like streit, schultz, filppula, bellemare, macdonald, read, raffl, vandevelde, weise...for those who were following the team in those days, that means in year 3, we were already past the rj umberger experience, but we had yet to come into the pleasure of knowing international drug smuggling kingpin, jori lehtera.
    read the article bundy wrote...he is right. This is provorov's 4th year and we still haven't found him a suitable partner that he can jell with. Its crazy. Usually when you have a young defender come in, you immediately pair him with a top vet so that he can learn and have an eaSier path. It has been the opposite for him. Mcavoy was with chara, werenski with jones...provorov has been with amac, ghost for a while, sanheim, hagg, and maybe a few others. Get this guy a partner he can have for a few years man. Same for ghost and sanheim
    there's a good chance the guy you're looking for winds up being niskanen. or at least that seems to be the hope in trading for him.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    read the article bundy wrote...he is right. This is provorov's 4th year and we still haven't found him a suitable partner that he can jell with. Its crazy. Usually when you have a young defender come in, you immediately pair him with a top vet so that he can learn and have an eaSier path. It has been the opposite for him. Mcavoy was with chara, werenski with jones...provorov has been with amac, ghost for a while, sanheim, hagg, and maybe a few others. Get this guy a partner he can have for a few years man. Same for ghost and sanheim.
    this is irrelevent though because ghost is better because even though he was so **** he was forced with prov and we constantly put **** defenders with prov to handicap him GHOST is still better lmfao... Prov has been literally **** on by the coaching staff time and time again forcing **** defenders next to him WITH him just because he does so much all the time... Give the ****ing dude some help and he ***** on everyone else... He plays the most minutes and is always the top guy on our penalty kill etc and yet he is anchored with **** Macdonald and ghost and other guys who cant or refuse to defend and its hilarious when some fan tries to argue someone else above him.... Ghost was literally put with him because ghost was **** yet we should keep ghost who is years older and move prov..... logic.

  12. #117
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    I'd go with

    Provy Sanheim
    Myers Niskanen
    Ghost Braun/Morin/Hagg

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbz88 View Post
    I'd go with

    Provy Sanheim
    Myers Niskanen
    Ghost Braun/Morin/Hagg
    Thank god you’re not the guy

    L L
    R R
    L R


    Provorov Nisky
    Sanheim Myers
    Ghost Braun

    L R
    L R
    L R

    Morin cut or AHL, total waste of the 11th pick.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Thank god you’re not the guy

    L L
    R R
    L R


    Provorov Nisky
    Sanheim Myers
    Ghost Braun

    L R
    L R
    L R

    Morin cut or AHL, total waste of the 11th pick.
    Handedness is luxury. It's an absolute mistake to play Matt Niskanen top line minutes as he was among the absolute worst defensemen in the NHL last year in terms of xG vs xGA differentials. Is this an end all be all number? No. But it suggests that he was routinely torched last year defensively. This is not good news for a defensemen entering age 33 season who's showing signs of decline. His TOI has been diminishing year after year. Playing him top 5v5 minutes with Provorov simply because he's opposite handed could very well end with Provorov dragging around a defensive liability in important minutes.

    Niskanen just doesn't profile as 1st line minutes right now until he can prove it. I'll take those numbers well over the "well he's a veteran" or "he's a certain handedness" any day.

  15. #120
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    Handedness is luxury. It's an absolute mistake to play Matt Niskanen top line minutes as he was among the absolute worst defensemen in the NHL last year in terms of xG vs xGA differentials. Is this an end all be all number? No. But it suggests that he was routinely torched last year defensively. This is not good news for a defensemen entering age 33 season who's showing signs of decline. His TOI has been diminishing year after year. Playing him top 5v5 minutes with Provorov simply because he's opposite handed could very well end with Provorov dragging around a defensive liability in important minutes.

    Niskanen just doesn't profile as 1st line minutes right now until he can prove it. I'll take those numbers well over the "well he's a veteran" or "he's a certain handedness" any day.
    both niskanen and braun played 20 MPG last season in shutdown roles, on 100+ point teams.

    if you want to argue that they did their jobs poorly, i get it, but i think it's important to note that because they ate those hard minutes, their teammates (burns, carlson, karlsson) were able to put up massive offensive numbers (198 points in 215 games) with less wear and tear.


    if provorov and niskanen take up that kind of role, sanheim and ghost could be on the verge of some huge seasons.

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