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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    What you did was took team, based defensive stats, and proprietary defensive stats that are not tracking based to make your case. Sorry, defense is not something that can be quantified through stats easily. There are far too many outliers. I always comfortably fall back on Steph Curry remaining an above average defender based on stats, including tracking stats, when reality is he's putrid.

    "Take an L" lol. You think I'm in some competition about being right? Sorry bruh, I don't care about weirdos on the internet that much.

    Sabonis is closer to Kanter, than a "good defender" as you suggest.
    You might have a leg to stand on if you provided any kind of actual counterargument outside of "I watched 3 Pacer games and he was bad" or linking articles that aren't what the topic is about. You haven't provided anything of substance.

    No stat is perfect, I'd never make that claim. But when using an amalgam of various metrics that are controlled for teammate influence it helps provide a clearer picture. Not to mention the fact that I'm an actual Pacer fan, and watched nearly every game last year. So I'm wondering what insight or information you have that I don't that contradicts anything I've said. Because if you have any, you haven't mentioned it.

    I'm always down to engage critically when the other person actually brings something to the table, but so far, you haven't.

    Sabonis is a quality defender, and helped contribute to the third best defense in the league last year, and is only going to continue to improve on that end. He's a high quality rim protector, shown by opposing team's rim field goal percentage, and is perfectly capable of rotating out to the perimeter as well as guarding the PnR.

    So now I'm wondering, if defensive metrics don't bring value to this conversation, and neither does the fact that I've watched damn near every Pacer game since he's arrived, what brings value to this conversation?

  2. #32
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    Rather keep Turner

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The NBA is still behind on that front. A really smart hard playing big who doesn't block shots is a much bigger asset than a ball stopping shot blocker. The Warriors have been talking up Kevon Looney who is a less skilled version of Sabonis as an absolute key player for them ... and they really wanted Sabonis in that draft but couldn't find a trade to go get him.

    Looney's shot is supposedly coming along, I assume Sabonis is working on his outside shot too.
    This is a great point. Teams always want the guys who has the tools to be a great defender. But a smart basketball mind can make up for the tools quite a bit. Jared dudley has made a career on that. His old, unathletic corpse continues to find a home around the league because he can get into position on defense. On the flip side, there's guys like John Henson. When he was with the bucks, he truly was one of the best shot blockers in the league. The problem was he wanted to block everything which resulted in him often being out of position. And he'd alter a ton of shots too, but because he came flying over to contest an already tough shot, he'd leave his guy under the hoop for an easy put back.

    I truthfully haven't watched enough of sabonis to say one way or the other on him, but there is merit for defensive positioning and rebounding. They aren't the only stats by any means, and it's an equation no one has completely figured out yet. I'll take a guy who gives up a little higher shooting percentage at the rim if that guy also contributes to the defense giving up less shots at the rim and less put back opportunities. I don't know the exact weight on those metrics or how to even fully measure one players impact on shots allowed in the paint, but it's all part of the equation.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 09-09-2019 at 01:36 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    This is a great point. Teams always want the guys who has the tools to be a great defender. But a smart basketball mind can make up for the tools quite a bit. Jared dudley has made a career on that. His old, unathletic corpse continues to find a home around the league because he can get into position on defense. On the flip side, there's guys like John Henson. When he was with the bucks, he truly was one of the best shot blockers in the league. The problem was he wanted to block everything which resulted in him often being out of position. And he'd alter a ton of shots too, but because he came flying over to contest an already tough shot, he'd leave his guy under the hoop for an easy put back.

    I truthfully haven't watched enough of sabonis to say one way or the other on him, but there is merit for defensive positioning and rebounding. They aren't the only stats by any means, and it's an equation no one has completely figured out yet. I'll take a guy who gives up a little higher shooting percentage at the rim if that guy also contributes to the defense giving up less shots at the rim and less put back opportunities. I don't know the exact weight on those metrics or how to even fully measure one players impact on shots allowed in the paint, but it's all part of the equation.
    I need to watch more as well but offensively no one reminds more of a poor manís Tim Duncan then Sabonis. He is smart and fundamentally sound as they come. He is also strong as a horse.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    You called him Kanter with better passing.
    They're both athletically inferior and need to show more on defense.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    They're both athletically inferior and need to show more on defense.
    That description also fits Jokic, doesnít mean itís a good comparison.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    They're both athletically inferior and need to show more on defense.
    He is 6í11 pretty mobile for a 5 and strong as a horse. He is not long or a leaper but is not unathletic. Way more mobile then Kanter. I do need to see more to have a real grasp on his play but I am sure he is a significantly better defender then Kanter.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #38
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    Not as good as his dad but imagine a Ewing like player only with court vision. pretty sick

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Not as good as his dad but imagine a Ewing like player only with court vision. pretty sick
    This comment is completely backwards and disrespects Ewing, making it seem like Arvydas was better. Needs rephrasing.

  10. #40
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    A more realistic comparison is Zach Randolph with court vision, not comparison to a true #1 option, perennial all-star, premier defensive Center.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    This comment is completely backwards and disrespects Ewing, making it seem like Arvydas was better. Needs rephrasing.
    Donít really think you realize how great Arvydas was.


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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    Donít really think you realize how great Arvydas was.


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    Did you live in Europe/Russia during his prime? If not, I don't know how you can realistically attest. Can you really compare and contrast watching highlight videos against inferior competition? Yes, I've watched 'The Other Dream Team', and also heard how good he was, but prefer not to analyze by tall tales and clips.

    Nonetheless I know how good Ewing was, and Donatas is not close.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOboston View Post
    Donít really think you realize how great Arvydas was.


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    He was a cripple by the time he made it here


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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