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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Yeah Washington didn't tank, but I was more so saying that top prospects aren't infallible, even when hyped. I remember a lot of people viewed RG3 as just a notch below Luck as a prospect.

    I really don't think I agree that Luck was as advertised. He was routinely a top 10QB and very good, but he was never elite and I'm not sure I ever had him in my top 4-5 in any given season. He was billed as the next GOAT. People called him a 1st ballot HoFer before he even took a snap and I don't even know if he was playing at a HoF pace if he would've played another 10 years. His career accolades are an ugly AFCCG beat down after beating a banged up Bengals and Broncos team, and that big comeback against KC. His stats were probably flashy given that everyone has flashy stats these days.

    I like Luck but he was more of a rich man's Matt Ryan than the next Peyton Manning.
    its not really on Luck though. they refused to give him and OL and run game. that FO was so clueless until this past season.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    1 super bowl with a qb you drafted is a win for a franchise imo. Its tough to win the super bowl. How many multi champions do we have outside of NE/Pitt/NYG currently for the past few decades?

    Maybe you could argue Luck as wasted, but I don't see how Peyton/Favre (Drafted by ATL iirc)/Rodgers were wasted. There was potentially more, but nothing was wasted.
    1 Super Bowl shouldn't be the barometer for teams with elite QB's. The fact that the Packers haven't even been to a Super Bowl in 7 years is embarrassing. The fact that they're had an elite QB since basically 1994 and only have 2 Super Bowls to show for it is also embarrassing.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    1 Super Bowl shouldn't be the barometer for teams with elite QB's. The fact that the Packers haven't even been to a Super Bowl in 7 years is embarrassing. The fact that they're had an elite QB since basically 1994 and only have 2 Super Bowls to show for it is also embarrassing.
    They have 3... 2 wins though. (Being a dick because Iím sure thatís what you meant)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    They have 3... 2 wins though. (Being a dick because Iím sure thatís what you meant)


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    The patriots have ten appearances in that time witch is just absurd

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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    1 Super Bowl shouldn't be the barometer for teams with elite QB's. The fact that the Packers haven't even been to a Super Bowl in 7 years is embarrassing. The fact that they're had an elite QB since basically 1994 and only have 2 Super Bowls to show for it is also embarrassing.
    How many sb's has brees, rivers, big ben even, since he battled aaron, been to? These guys are all considered top 5 or borderline top 5 for a while.

    basically 2/3+ of elite qbs are wasted in this league no matter what happens from your perspective.
    Last edited by Heediot; 08-30-2019 at 07:36 AM.

  6. #51
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    IIRC only PManning, EManning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Warner, and Brady have been to multiple SBs since 2000.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    IIRC only PManning, EManning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Warner, and Brady have been to multiple SBs since 2000.
    I think you can swap out Wilson for Brees, pretty sure Brees has only been to one.

    Arguable if people view Russ as Elite, Eli is most certainly not. This is in response to mj and his views on if a team wasted a elite qb. Not even sure Luck is elite in ways myself.

    It's like saying Barkley, Mailman, Ewing etc were wasted because Jordan was winning all the rings.

  8. #53
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    in a single elim format winning even one SB is a huge accomplishment.

  9. #54
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    Yeah Super Bowl wins are not a barometer for an elite QB. Way too many things can happen outside of a QBs control, and as noted above, single elimination means there is a ton of uncertainty about how the playoffs will go.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamba42 View Post
    Yeah Super Bowl wins are not a barometer for an elite QB. Way too many things can happen outside of a QBs control, and as noted above, single elimination means there is a ton of uncertainty about how the playoffs will go.
    That's the thing about quarterbacks; they better have a title. Nobody ever criticizes a non-QB Hall of Famer for not having a ring. Quarterbacks are like basketball players in that respect. People actually rip on LeBron James for only having three titles -- how dumb! {LMAO}

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    I think you can swap out Wilson for Brees, pretty sure Brees has only been to one.

    Arguable if people view Russ as Elite, Eli is most certainly not. This is in response to mj and his views on if a team wasted a elite qb. Not even sure Luck is elite in ways myself.

    It's like saying Barkley, Mailman, Ewing etc were wasted because Jordan was winning all the rings.
    You're comparing two different sports that don't have much in common. It IS a failure if a team has an elite QB and doesn't make several Super Bowls. Broncos got Manning and went to 2 in 4 years. Broncos went to 5 Super Bowls with Elway.

    If you've got an answer at the most important position in sports, and you still can't even make it to the Super Bowl, then you've got some real deficiencies in the front office by not being able to build a team around him.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamba42 View Post
    Yeah Super Bowl wins are not a barometer for an elite QB. Way too many things can happen outside of a QBs control, and as noted above, single elimination means there is a ton of uncertainty about how the playoffs will go.
    What I'm saying has nothing to do with this because I agree with you. I'm saying that if you have an elite QB and haven't been to multiple Super Bowls, you've failed as a franchise.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    You're comparing two different sports that don't have much in common. It IS a failure if a team has an elite QB and doesn't make several Super Bowls. Broncos got Manning and went to 2 in 4 years. Broncos went to 5 Super Bowls with Elway.

    If you've got an answer at the most important position in sports, and you still can't even make it to the Super Bowl, then you've got some real deficiencies in the front office by not being able to build a team around him.
    I think your spoiled bro (with Elway and Peyton). I honestly think that if you draft or acquire a qb and get 1 super bowl out of it, don't care about how many trips, it's a success, especially in the salary cap age. The important thing is the level of consistency and competitiveness of the team. That's just me. There are too many elite qbs by your standards if you think Luck is elite. There can e some blame on the FO/coach for not protecting the qb with oline. But with only so much money going around there will always be excuses as to why a qb isn't successful nowadays. If you invest in the oline heavily you might lack elsewhere. Not easy to build a balanced roster for a long period of time.

    I don't care about Young, Aikman and Elway. Those teams manipulated and screwed with the cap in its infancy but that kind of strategy wasn't viable long term.

    A true superstar in Basketball is just as vital as a elite qb in football imo. Same kind of impact and level of team dependency on such a player. But don't worry about that analogy.

    I do agree it can be disappointing not having done more if you found an elite qb. But winning multiple ships is damn hard in the current salary cap age. You lose 50 percent of your roster or more in like 3-4 years in this league. It's only the Pats who have the qb and bb running things combo that seems to be consistent. With QBs taking up so much cap it's hard to maintain a championship level roster for a long time.

    I think guys like Rodgers and Luck are also responsible for their teams halted runs by how injury prone they are. Not blaming them fully, but some guys are just more brittle vs. others. Football is a punishing sport too and injuries happen easier vs. other sports.

    I'll agree to disagree as I am more easily content.
    Last edited by Heediot; 09-01-2019 at 07:30 AM.

  14. #59
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    I was somewhat right about Brian Hoyer playing for the Colts.

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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    I think your spoiled bro (with Elway and Peyton). I honestly think that if you draft or acquire a qb and get 1 super bowl out of it, don't care about how many trips, it's a success, especially in the salary cap age. The important thing is the level of consistency and competitiveness of the team. That's just me. There are too many elite qbs by your standards if you think Luck is elite. There can e some blame on the FO/coach for not protecting the qb with oline. But with only so much money going around there will always be excuses as to why a qb isn't successful nowadays. If you invest in the oline heavily you might lack elsewhere. Not easy to build a balanced roster for a long period of time.

    I don't care about Young, Aikman and Elway. Those teams manipulated and screwed with the cap in its infancy but that kind of strategy wasn't viable long term.

    A true superstar in Basketball is just as vital as a elite qb in football imo. Same kind of impact and level of team dependency on such a player. But don't worry about that analogy.

    I do agree it can be disappointing not having done more if you found an elite qb. But winning multiple ships is damn hard in the current salary cap age. You lose 50 percent of your roster or more in like 3-4 years in this league. It's only the Pats who have the qb and bb running things combo that seems to be consistent. With QBs taking up so much cap it's hard to maintain a championship level roster for a long time.

    I think guys like Rodgers and Luck are also responsible for their teams halted runs by how injury prone they are. Not blaming them fully, but some guys are just more brittle vs. others. Football is a punishing sport too and injuries happen easier vs. other sports.

    I'll agree to disagree as I am more easily content.
    Not spoiled, just have higher expectations I think. I root for a team that let go of a HC after a 12-4 season because we lost in the playoffs. That expectation that's engrained into every Broncos fan is why this is the first time we've had back to back losing seasons since the early 70's. It's why up until recently, we'd had more Super Bowl appearances than losing seasons since Pat Bowlen bought the team.

    But sure, agree to disagree

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