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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    This is the type of situation that Atkins is talking about. We don’t have all of the information about why moves are made. There could be something here. Boras is the agent. Sanchez has had problems with teammates in the clubhouse.

    I don’t care for the trade either way. It’s crap for crap. Too many are holding on to 6 months that Sanchez was good and forgetting about the rest.
    In speaking with Sportsnet’s Arash Madani, Atkins said that trading Aaron Sanchez “certainly wasn’t a need”, adding that “he’s been great” for the Blue Jays and that trading him was “just the opportunity”.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/jaysjou...-comments/amp/


    Madani asked Atkins whether it was a need to trade Sanchez, and he deferred, explaining that Fisher was too good to pass up.

    “He's been great for the Toronto Blue Jays. What he did in ‘15, ‘16 was exceptional and I'll be pulling for him,” Atkins said of Sanchez. “It was just the opportunity. We love Derek Fisher. Really, really excited about adding him to this core. He'll compliment us well. How hard he hits the ball, how fast he runs, playing all three, the handedness, complimenting the young outfielders we have now
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/ross-atkins-defends-return-for-stroman-sanchez-amid-criticism-astros-mets-031445476.html

    This is what he said.

    If the trade was for an opportunity to get Fisher, then the complaints are warranted

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    In speaking with Sportsnet’s Arash Madani, Atkins said that trading Aaron Sanchez “certainly wasn’t a need”, adding that “he’s been great” for the Blue Jays and that trading him was “just the opportunity”.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/jaysjou...-comments/amp/


    Madani asked Atkins whether it was a need to trade Sanchez, and he deferred, explaining that Fisher was too good to pass up.

    “He's been great for the Toronto Blue Jays. What he did in ‘15, ‘16 was exceptional and I'll be pulling for him,” Atkins said of Sanchez. “It was just the opportunity. We love Derek Fisher. Really, really excited about adding him to this core. He'll compliment us well. How hard he hits the ball, how fast he runs, playing all three, the handedness, complimenting the young outfielders we have now
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.spor...031445476.html

    This is what he said.

    If the trade was for an opportunity to get Fisher, then the complaints are warranted

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Well no. It’s true. It was an obvious statement. You’ve already admitted that you don’t know all the reasons they do what they do. Now you’re trying to apply your emotional opinion as one of the reasons.

    Come clean? Lol. Yeah, like a GM would ever come out and say what you’re hoping he will.
    My opinions are based on facts not emotions. Atkins trade history and the timing of the deals leaves a little to be desired. There was a report the Twins were in play on Stroman and Atkins never called back and went ahead and pulled the trigger for kay and swr 3 days before the TDL. The Twins farm KILLS anything the Mets have. Like not even close.

    You stated it could be Boras right.....well Boras also represents McKinney so if they had an issue with Boras why would they trade for him in the first place? and McKinney has been great as far as accepting his role on the team. Imagine if teams made moves because they couldn't get along with the agents. That would be a terrible way to run a baseball team.

    Atkins on Boras

    "...our interactions are always productive. Whether (his shot at the Jays) is unfair, you guys can decide that. We focus on what we can control and making good baseball decisions, and I’m excited about what’s coming.”

    Notice that Atkins said their decisions are based on baseball side of things and not the agent like you suggested.

    So what other reason could there be? Money? nope.
    Clubhouse issues? nope.

    And there's the fact that Jon Morosi ripped both deals.

    In the end he was never asked the question but offered it up anyway and when called on it he still had no answer.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Just to be accurate here, none of what you just posted had anything to do with the question asked. Did you watch the video?

    Sid:
    "I'll let you make the opening statement here because you saw more Jays baseball probably than everyone in this room your sense on how this year went compared to what you thought it would be to start the year"

    Atkins:
    "yeah well I mean the way it ended is what we've been focused on right now with excitement and around this young core the the group that has transitioned has transitioned well they are talking about winning thinking about winning thinking about a group thinking about the collective and that's massive for us but didn't come without a great deal of frustration you know losing 95 games is painful was very difficult for fans we often times feel as though it's much more difficult for fans because they don't have a lot of the information below on why we're making certain decisions..."

    (above from the youtube transcript)
    You've lost me now. I dont see how anything I've said wasnt relevant to the question asked. Maybe clarify.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Okay, so you admit you don't know all of the reasons. Pretty safe to assume you would conclude that the rest of us don't either as would I. Therefore, obvious statement.
    Lol

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    False. I know some of the reasons, like he's terrible at evaluating major league or even near major league talent. He's admitted gaps in their analytic program he needs to come clean on the rest.
    You have guesses. How much humility does it take to acknowledge that we arent privy to their private thoughts and plans and are therefore terribly unqualified to judge most things related to the front office...

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    You've lost me now. I dont see how anything I've said wasnt relevant to the question asked. Maybe clarify.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Atkins answer (re: the fans not knowing) wasn't relevant to Sid's question.

  8. #53
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    Cashman post TDL press conference. Straight talk. No fluff here, he gets into specifics on almost every single rumor even saying he spoke to every team with the exception of the Red Sox. Reminds me of AA.

    https://www.sportscasting.com/marcus...brian-cashman/

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    You have guesses. How much humility does it take to acknowledge that we arent privy to their private thoughts and plans and are therefore terribly unqualified to judge most things related to the front office...

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

    It's actually pretty fair game to judge a person's decision making based on the information they provide us. It could end up being an inaccurate assessment of them (which is entirely possible in Atkins situation) but doesn't mean they should be immune to it.

    You can both awknowledge they may not give all the information and plans they gave while also judging with the information you have (especially when that info is given by the person being criticized). It isn't mutually exclusive. If Atkins says something (ie Sanchez may be a locker room cancer but he's just trying to say Fisher is a hell of an opportunity), that's easily fair game to criticize him trading for Fisher.
    Last edited by Raps18-19 Champ; 10-14-2019 at 02:45 AM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Well no. It’s true. It was an obvious statement. You’ve already admitted that you don’t know all the reasons they do what they do. Now you’re trying to apply your emotional opinion as one of the reasons.

    Come clean? Lol. Yeah, like a GM would ever come out and say what you’re hoping he will.
    If are are going with the premise that we dont fully know the reasons why Atkins does what he does, then its pretty fair game to judge him on what he does say (regardless of whether its the real reason or not). And theres a lot of things he actually says to criticize him on.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    If are are going with the premise that we dont fully know the reasons why Atkins does what he does, then its pretty fair game to judge him on what he does say (regardless of whether its the real reason or not). And theres a lot of things he actually says to criticize him on.
    No doubt, but what's the sense in getting upset when he gives an obvious response?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    My opinions are based on facts not emotions. Atkins trade history and the timing of the deals leaves a little to be desired. There was a report the Twins were in play on Stroman and Atkins never called back and went ahead and pulled the trigger for kay and swr 3 days before the TDL. The Twins farm KILLS anything the Mets have. Like not even close.

    You stated it could be Boras right.....well Boras also represents McKinney so if they had an issue with Boras why would they trade for him in the first place? and McKinney has been great as far as accepting his role on the team. Imagine if teams made moves because they couldn't get along with the agents. That would be a terrible way to run a baseball team.

    Atkins on Boras

    "...our interactions are always productive. Whether (his shot at the Jays) is unfair, you guys can decide that. We focus on what we can control and making good baseball decisions, and I’m excited about what’s coming.”

    Notice that Atkins said their decisions are based on baseball side of things and not the agent like you suggested.

    So what other reason could there be? Money? nope.
    Clubhouse issues? nope.

    And there's the fact that Jon Morosi ripped both deals.

    In the end he was never asked the question but offered it up anyway and when called on it he still had no answer.
    I was just giving a couple of examples of things that could happen that we wouldn't be privy to.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    It's actually pretty fair game to judge a person's decision making based on the information they provide us. It could end up being an inaccurate assessment of them (which is entirely possible in Atkins situation) but doesn't mean they should be immune to it.

    You can both awknowledge they may not give all the information and plans they gave while also judging with the information you have (especially when that info is given by the person being criticized). It isn't mutually exclusive. If Atkins says something (ie Sanchez may be a locker room cancer but he's just trying to say Fisher is a hell of an opportunity), that's easily fair game to criticize him trading for Fisher.
    Ok. So i can agree with that statement for the most part. So if we look at the Stroman deal, and their public statements regarding the players they got in return - particularly SWR, where is all the criticism coming from?

    The general reaction from fans is based on almost exclusively one thing, the perception that anything really good should be found on whichever of the various top 100 lists we have at our disposal. That's it. We dont have contacts within the league, we dont have extensive scouting reports from before the draft, we dont have scouts that have attended his games.

    So if you admit to those things, and hear the FO say look I know hes not at the top of all these lists but we believe he is definitely a great pitching prospect with a great future - but then turn around and say they didnt get a good return on Stroman then you are talking out the both sides of your mouth. You are saying one thing but definitely not doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    No doubt, but what's the sense in getting upset when he gives an obvious response?
    We may as well not have interviews for sports to begin with then if we expect they'll give an obvious answer the whole time.

    Part of these interviews is to try and bridge the lack of the fans knowledge and the person making the calls. If he keeps giving answers that don't align with his so-so decision making, it's fair game.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    In speaking with Sportsnet’s Arash Madani, Atkins said that trading Aaron Sanchez “certainly wasn’t a need”, adding that “he’s been great” for the Blue Jays and that trading him was “just the opportunity”.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/jaysjou...-comments/amp/


    Madani asked Atkins whether it was a need to trade Sanchez, and he deferred, explaining that Fisher was too good to pass up.

    “He's been great for the Toronto Blue Jays. What he did in ‘15, ‘16 was exceptional and I'll be pulling for him,” Atkins said of Sanchez. “It was just the opportunity. We love Derek Fisher. Really, really excited about adding him to this core. He'll compliment us well. How hard he hits the ball, how fast he runs, playing all three, the handedness, complimenting the young outfielders we have now
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.spor...031445476.html

    This is what he said.

    If the trade was for an opportunity to get Fisher, then the complaints are warranted
    But only if you believe they gave up something good in the trade. I don't. I am a Sanchez fan myself, but we have to separate the guys you like personally from the production. Maybe he could have gotten him cheaper, maybe not. Maybe of all of the guys that had been offered for Sanchez, Fisher was actually the best. Information we don't have.

    One thing for sure, is that Atkins does slather it on when talking about players he's acquired. He exaggerates quite a bit.

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