Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





View Poll Results: What will your boy deliver?

Voters
5. You may not vote on this poll
  • Sweep? - #BDizzle4Prez

    1 20.00%
  • Sweep - #BDizzle4Life

    3 60.00%
  • Sweep - #BDizzle4Mod

    3 60.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 51 of 61 FirstFirst ... 414950515253 ... LastLast
Results 751 to 765 of 904
  1. #751
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,462
    This was just posted today. Seems relevant to this discussion. They use “leverage” rather than “RISP,” but it’s the same concept.

    https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...inger-harrison

  2. #752
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    50,234
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'm saying the same thing. He's pretty much the very good hitter that he is in all situations.

    I just pointed out that fans would like to see him kick it up a substantial notch with RISP, instead of a slight negative change. You may not be a fan that would like to see a superstar improve with RISP, but there's a lot out there. My guess is, those are the fans that are critical of him

    He's still great any way you cut it.
    Sure. But why don't they feel that way about everyone? How about Rizzo? Or Baez? This is the only year in Javy's career he's been great with RISP. Every other year he's not been great.

    And all those guys have been historically not better than Bryant with RISP. Rizzo being the "exception" with a 128wRC+ which is basically exactly KB's numbers in those situations. I just don't get it. People are desperate to find some reason to act like KB isn't the amazing player that he is, and it utterly baffles me.

  3. #753
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    50,234
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    This was just posted today. Seems relevant to this discussion. They use “leverage” rather than “RISP,” but it’s the same concept.

    https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...inger-harrison
    Ya. This pretty succinctly sums it up. It's just such a small sample and so all over the place all the time.

  4. #754
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,462
    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'm saying the same thing. He's pretty much the very good hitter that he is in all situations.

    I just pointed out that fans would like to see him kick it up a substantial notch with RISP, instead of a slight negative change. You may not be a fan that would like to see a superstar improve with RISP, but there's a lot out there. My guess is, those are the fans that are critical of him

    He's still great any way you cut it.
    Lol. Thawv.

    Yeah, I’d like to see cubs players get worse in leverage.

    You posted stats showing KB is always great and that 2 other players have been great in some situations and bad in other situations and think the problem there is that KB doesn’t have a huge gap in his performance between RISP and nobody on base. He could “kick it up a notch with RISP,” by just making a lot more outs with the bases empty. Would that help?

    If fans are critical about KB’s performance with RISP, then they are wrong.

  5. #755
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,330
    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Nobody bothered to answer the question of when it will be though. Theres no stabilization point for it. But when would it be big enough to care about?
    The stabilization question absolutely was answered.

  6. #756
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,022
    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    As I've addressed a milliondyseven times, he has is very good in his career with RISP. His wRC+ is 127 in those situations. Bryant is a very good hitter. Pick the guy on the team you think is BEST in those situations. In almost ANY situation. Bryant is almost assuredly as good or better over the course of his career in that same situation.

    That's how good he is at hitting.
    Did somebody say that he's not good with RISP?

    I've posted what you've said already. Not sure why you're implying I'm stating something different than what you're stating.

    He's solid in every situation. We all know that already. There's literally not an argument that he hits with RISP. At least not from me. He does.

    If there's any discussion, it could be about why he regresses with RISP. At least by HIS standards. Most players would be thrilled to put his RISP numbers up. But most players aren't a superstar like KB is.

  7. #757
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Addison, IL
    Posts
    21,481
    Lol. Mad Dog on MLB Network ranked his Top 5 all time Cubs since today is the anniversary of when Ernie Banks # was retired at Wrigley.

    1. Ernie Banks
    2. Frank Chance
    3. Mordecai “Three Fingers” Brown
    4. Fergie Jenkins
    5. Billy Williams

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  8. #758
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,022
    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    Sure. But why don't they feel that way about everyone? How about Rizzo? Or Baez? This is the only year in Javy's career he's been great with RISP. Every other year he's not been great.

    And all those guys have been historically not better than Bryant with RISP. Rizzo being the "exception" with a 128wRC+ which is basically exactly KB's numbers in those situations. I just don't get it. People are desperate to find some reason to act like KB isn't the amazing player that he is, and it utterly baffles me.
    Personally, I think it's because KB is an elite superstar, and fans have much higher expectations from him than any other player on the Cubs. And when he doesn't produce at an alarming rate, they think he's not clutch. But the numbers say differently.

  9. #759
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,330
    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Being a top 5-10 player doesn't mean you're always in the top 5-10 in a given year. Guys have career years that they never repeat and are in and out of elitehood all the time. Also yeah, I'd say I'm more in the camp he's perennial top 10 roughly. Last year we know he was hurt, and this is the first year he's on pace to be out of the top 10 when healthy. I'd rephrase it like this: Are there 10 position players you can name that you would definitively rather have, in a vacuum (as in, contract/pay not withstanding) than Bryant? Cause my list goes like this:

    Trout
    Betts
    Bellinger
    Yelich

    After that it gets pretty difficult to say. There's lots of names you could argue but I don't think are worthwhile. Lots of guys that are 6-7 WAR candidates like KB any given year but none much better. It's kind of an area where the "top 5-10" thing becomes a dumb way of looking at things and you moreso break them down into tiers. There's the Trout tier, which Mookie might've been close to but now he's having the year he's having. Then there's Bellinger and Yelich, then there's your KBs, Arenados, Bregmans, Altuves, and probably 10 other guys in that 6-7 WAR expectation for a given year who can all finish in the top 10 somewhere. Overall though, I stand by my statement that there's a reason KB is 3rd in fWAR even despite 2018 since he joined the league. He's consistently in that top tier of players when healthy.
    It's semantics at this point, but "perennial" top 5 player means usually in top 5, to my way of thinking anyway.

    And with that definition only one player clears the bar (Trout).

    FWIW, count of top 5 fWAR seasons since 2015 (including 2019 YTD, so max of 5):
    Mike Trout 5
    Kris Bryant 2
    Mookie Betts 2
    Christian Yelich 2
    Josh Donaldson 2
    Alex Bregman 2
    Anthony Rendon 1
    Jose Altuve 1
    Joey Votto 1
    Jose Ramirez 1
    Cody Bellinger 1
    Francisco Lindor 1
    Xander Bogaerts 1
    Paul Goldschmidt 1
    Bryce Harper 1
    Giancarlo Stanton 1
    Corey Seager 1
    Aaron Judge 1
    Ketel Marte 1

    Guys with multiple top 10 seasons:
    Mike Trout 5
    Kris Bryant 3
    Anthony Rendon 3
    Manny Machado 3
    Mookie Betts 2
    Christian Yelich 2
    Josh Donaldson 2
    Alex Bregman 2
    Jose Altuve 2
    Joey Votto 2
    Jose Ramirez 2
    Buster Posey 2

  10. #760
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    50,234
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Lol. Thawv.

    Yeah, I’d like to see cubs players get worse in leverage.

    You posted stats showing KB is always great and that 2 other players have been great in some situations and bad in other situations and think the problem there is that KB doesn’t have a huge gap in his performance between RISP and nobody on base. He could “kick it up a notch with RISP,” by just making a lot more outs with the bases empty. Would that help?

    If fans are critical about KB’s performance with RISP, then they are wrong.
    wRC+ w/ RISP:
    Rizzo: 128
    Bryant: 127
    Baez: 94 (He's been unreal great this year, but was at 118 last year in case folks want to point out he wasn't a very good hitter until last year).
    Contreras: 132 (So far he's the only one who is significantly better in this specific one, still basically on par with KB)
    Heyward: 109
    Schwarber: 91
    Bote: 121 (Best in this situation)

    So that means that two people in their careers are better with RISP than in empty and men on in general.

    The best one, Contreras, becomes roughly on par with KB in those situations.

    Your best hitter is your best hitter. And I'd be more than willing to put a lot of money on KB ultimately ending his career with a better wRC+ with RISP than Contreras.

  11. #761
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    25,687
    Quote Originally Posted by davearm View Post
    It's semantics at this point, but "perennial" top 5 player means usually in top 5, to my way of thinking anyway.

    And with that definition only one player clears the bar (Trout).

    FWIW, count of top 5 fWAR seasons since 2015 (including 2019 YTD, so max of 5):
    Mike Trout 5
    Kris Bryant 2
    Mookie Betts 2
    Christian Yelich 2
    Josh Donaldson 2
    Alex Bregman 2
    Anthony Rendon 1
    Jose Altuve 1
    Joey Votto 1
    Jose Ramirez 1
    Cody Bellinger 1
    Francisco Lindor 1
    Xander Bogaerts 1
    Paul Goldschmidt 1
    Bryce Harper 1
    Giancarlo Stanton 1
    Corey Seager 1
    Aaron Judge 1
    Ketel Marte 1

    Guys with multiple top 10 seasons:
    Mike Trout 5
    Kris Bryant 3
    Anthony Rendon 3
    Manny Machado 3
    Mookie Betts 2
    Christian Yelich 2
    Josh Donaldson 2
    Alex Bregman 2
    Jose Altuve 2
    Joey Votto 2
    Jose Ramirez 2
    Buster Posey 2
    It is semantics. And yeah, I would agree, the "top x" thing isn't really a great tool here. But KB is certainly in that next tier of non-Trout players and if we're going by sheer production, we know that KB has been the 3rd most valuable position player since he entered the league. So it stands that he's probably at least a top 5-10 most valuable position player in the league. Or again, if you had the entire league re-drafted, he'd very likely be a top 5-10 position player picked.

  12. #762
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    50,234
    Quote Originally Posted by davearm View Post
    It's semantics at this point, but "perennial" top 5 player means usually in top 5, to my way of thinking anyway.

    And with that definition only one player clears the bar (Trout).

    FWIW, count of top 5 fWAR seasons since 2015 (including 2019 YTD, so max of 5):
    Mike Trout 5
    Kris Bryant 2
    Mookie Betts 2
    Christian Yelich 2
    Josh Donaldson 2
    Alex Bregman 2
    Anthony Rendon 1
    Jose Altuve 1
    Joey Votto 1
    Jose Ramirez 1
    Cody Bellinger 1
    Francisco Lindor 1
    Xander Bogaerts 1
    Paul Goldschmidt 1
    Bryce Harper 1
    Giancarlo Stanton 1
    Corey Seager 1
    Aaron Judge 1
    Ketel Marte 1

    Guys with multiple top 10 seasons:
    Mike Trout 5
    Kris Bryant 3
    Anthony Rendon 3
    Manny Machado 3
    Mookie Betts 2
    Christian Yelich 2
    Josh Donaldson 2
    Alex Bregman 2
    Jose Altuve 2
    Joey Votto 2
    Jose Ramirez 2
    Buster Posey 2
    Right. So then we agree. KB is a perennial top 5 guy. And without question a top 10 guy. Because I would look at his four healthy seasons. He's been top 5 in two out of four including YTD 2019. And was top 10 in the other full season and I think is likely to end top 10 now.

    Slice it how you want. KB is a really, really, super great baseball player.

    Colloquially, perennial is not used in the rigid way that you are, by the way. But that's semantics and just doesn't matter.
    Last edited by Doogolas; 08-22-2019 at 01:41 PM.

  13. #763
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,022
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Lol. Thawv.

    Yeah, I’d like to see cubs players get worse in leverage.

    You posted stats showing KB is always great and that 2 other players have been great in some situations and bad in other situations and think the problem there is that KB doesn’t have a huge gap in his performance between RISP and nobody on base. He could “kick it up a notch with RISP,” by just making a lot more outs with the bases empty. Would that help?

    If fans are critical about KB’s performance with RISP, then they are wrong.
    I simply selected two guys that seem like they are better with RISP than they are in every other situation. I looked it up, and I was right.

    If I had a choice, I would take 100, 120, and 170 in the three mentioned situations. But I will also be thrilled, and am thrilled with KB, spilts.

    Well, there's a lot of fans that are wrong about his RISP hitting. If they looked it up, I'd bet they'd be very surprised at how good he actually is.

  14. #764
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,022
    Quote Originally Posted by davearm View Post
    Used in this context, perennial means every year. So it seems to me that if we're arguing over the phrase "perennial top 5", then we have to look at individual year rankings, not rankings spanning multiple seasons.

    Code:
    Metric	2015	2016	2017	2018	2019
    wOBA	17	8	10	dnq	20
    wRC+	16	9	10	dnq	22
    OPS	23	8	11	dnq	21
    FG off	12	2	6	dnq	14
    I'm a huge KB fan, but he obviously hasn't ranked in the top 5 in the offensive categories you listed with any sort of regularity. Only once in his career, in fact.
    I know. I didn't claim he was a perennial top 5 hitter.

  15. #765
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    wRC+ w/ RISP:
    Rizzo: 128
    Bryant: 127
    Baez: 94 (He's been unreal great this year, but was at 118 last year in case folks want to point out he wasn't a very good hitter until last year).
    Contreras: 132 (So far he's the only one who is significantly better in this specific one, still basically on par with KB)
    Heyward: 109
    Schwarber: 91
    Bote: 121 (Best in this situation)

    So that means that two people in their careers are better with RISP than in empty and men on in general.

    The best one, Contreras, becomes roughly on par with KB in those situations.

    Your best hitter is your best hitter. And I'd be more than willing to put a lot of money on KB ultimately ending his career with a better wRC+ with RISP than Contreras.
    Right.

    There are other players that are “better” with RISP than bases empty, but it’s largely just noise. KB is a terrible example for the people who want to complain about RISP performance. He’s been really good. But overall, it’s just noise. Give me great hitters and it’ll work out.

Page 51 of 61 FirstFirst ... 414950515253 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •