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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    I never claimed it to be good but you act like him vs Smart is like Korver vs Noah He isnt a good shooter but he also isnt this bad either.

    you act as if a guy cant have a roll if he cant shoot. Dunn could Literally Fill the Marcus Smart Role perfectly. and he would not be disrespected by ignorant *** Fans who act like if you cant shoot you should not play. Again if this team was well coached. Dunn would seem like a quality bench guy to have . if you cant accept that IDK what to say. im sure anyone on any roster than shoots under 33% should be unrosteeable.
    Show me where I said if you cant shoot you cant have a ROLE...……….. he just doesn't fit with this team offensively point blank. People literally help off of him every game. If he was even a DECENT shooter he would average 15 points. He would be nice on the Nuggets which is where I said trade him. They have the shooter to hide them and a guy in Jokic that can find him slashing out of doubles.

    Also it is hard to play with guards on the court who cant shoot. Remember Andre Roberson? Imagine if he was Royce Oneale. Defense and 40% 3pt shooting. That would have made it a lot easier for KD and Russ. Remember when they played the Warriors and they just left Roberson open in game 7 and he clanked everything?

    Also again NO ONE said Smart shoots like Kyle Korver. Smart has turned himself into an average shooter at a high volume. Meanwhile. Dunn has only had 1 average season. The rest he has been a terrible 3 pt shooter. Its mind boggling that you are trying to act like he isn't a bad 3 pt shooter.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    I don't know why fans are so down on Carter? If it's just his health, then I kinda get it, but he's one of the few worth keeping here IMO. Boylen uses him like a poor man's Noah offensively... one of the many reasons he should have been **** canned already.
    He seems soft to me.

  3. #243
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    Placing all the blame on Boylen for players lack of development isn't much different than the FO continuing to place all the blame for losses on injuries.

    I have no problem allocating a sizable portion to Boylen but it gets to a point where you have to take a step back and understand 1.) this roster was poorly constructed to begin with and 2.) the key pieces (outside of Zach) were overhyped from a talent perspective and/or haven't worked hard enough to improve their game.

  4. #244
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    Exactly, we all know the coach is low tier but the players have major responsibilities in this failure as well.

    If Boylen is telling Lauri to shoot 3s most of the time, then that is a failure on Boylen. However, if Lauri is constantly turning the ball over on that dribble spin move, then that is a failure on Lauri.

    Similarly with Carter, if Boylen is telling him not to shoot but be a facilitator then that is bad coaching, however each time Carter fumbles the damn ball, then that falls on him.

    A good coach would just make the Lauri’s and Carters of the world better versions of themselves, but never elite. Take Luca, put him on this team under Boylen and he would still be damn good.

    Speaking of which, both seem hurt way too much.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by chisox721 View Post
    He seems soft to me.
    IDK, the injuries are concerning, but he's a plus defender, a good rebounder, and looked like a better shooter when he came out.

    I don't think there are many real keepers here though, so maybe I'm reaching for WCJ.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by chisox721 View Post
    Placing all the blame on Boylen for players lack of development isn't much different than the FO continuing to place all the blame for losses on injuries.

    I have no problem allocating a sizable portion to Boylen but it gets to a point where you have to take a step back and understand 1.) this roster was poorly constructed to begin with and 2.) the key pieces (outside of Zach) were overhyped from a talent perspective and/or haven't worked hard enough to improve their game.
    You can only get so far when you're just drafting the safe pick at 7 every year. It won't happen, but for once I'd like to see them take a real chance in the draft, whether it's trading up, or taking a swing on a high upside prospect that falls for whatever reason. I've never liked how conservative Paxson is, considering he's really in no danger of being fired.

  7. #247
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    It's pretty nuts that the Bulls are 2.5 games from the playoffs and 2 games from the 5th worst record in the league lol.

    Those early season games that we imploded in the 2nd half really grind my gears when I think about it. Flip the 4 most egregious losses of the season, 10/23 vs Hornets, 10/28 vs Knicks, 10/30 vs Cavs, and 12/6 vs Warriors, and we are sitting at the 7 seed. There were other games we squandered as well, but these were the games that made you scratch your head.

    One positive you can take from all of that is, even with horrible coaching decisions, injuries out the ***, and some very disappointing numbers from Lauri, we are actually starting to win the games that we are supposed to win. That's a credit to Lavine, and maybe he could finish the year strong enough that he might get someone to want to play alongside him.

  8. #248
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    2019-20 Bulls Trade and Acquisitions

    Delete delete
    Last edited by Stunner; 01-29-2020 at 02:28 AM.

  9. #249
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    2019-20 Bulls Trade and Acquisitions

    Delete
    Last edited by Stunner; 01-29-2020 at 02:28 AM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownbullsBG7 View Post
    Thybulle 38%, Grant 37%, Crowder 29%, Tucker 37%, Prince 35%, Bradley 29% but is 46% Fg, Craig 23%, Murray 35%, Covington 35%, Finney smith 38%, Rondae hollis Jefferson 15% but shoot 48% Fg, Ariza 35%, Royce oneale 43%, Beverly 34%, MKG 29%, Iggy( we know he hits big time 3s), Aminu 25%, Harkless 33%.

    There goes your theory that half of them shoot as bad as dunn. Dunn(26%) is shooting as bad as MKG. Let that sink in.

    Also im tired of people saying dunn is an elite defender, its false. He is a very good defender that relies on reaching and jumping lanes. He is a good defender but you are over rating him. reminds me of when people try to say Iverson was elite on the defensive end for the same reasons.

    So yes, Dunn is easily replaceable. You are probably the only person that doesn't think he is. Well besides Kris dunn himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownbullsBG7 View Post
    Marcus Smart gets praised because he can guard every position besides C and he shoots 35% on 6.5 3 pt attempts a game. Last year he shot 36% on 4.3 a game.

    Are the Bulls a good team? No one said he isn't a defensive specialist. no one said he couldn't be a vitol piece to a champion ship team. Hell, I had him going to the Nuggets to fill that need. So what are you talking about?

    Thybulle 20min, oneale 30min, Crowder 30 min, Bradley 23min, Aminu 21min, finney smith 30min, Hollis-Jefferson 20min, Grant 24min, Tucker 35min, Prince 30min, Dejante murray 24min, Covington 29 min, Ariza 25min, pat bev 28 min, Harkless 22min. So only 3 guys I mentioned out of 19 don't see Kris dunn minutes. Iggy would if he were playing so actually 2 MKG and Torrey Craig. So again what are you talking about? Dunn gets 25 minutes and that is inflated due to injury.

    Also dunn cant guard 4s lol. hell he can barely guard the bigger wings in the nba but he does do a great job on wings. Very good defender but he is replaceable. A lot of guys can give close to what dunn give and more offensively. That isn't a knock on him as a defensive specialist.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownbullsBG7 View Post
    Show me where I said if you cant shoot you cant have a ROLE...……….. he just doesn't fit with this team offensively point blank. People literally help off of him every game. If he was even a DECENT shooter he would average 15 points. He would be nice on the Nuggets which is where I said trade him. They have the shooter to hide them and a guy in Jokic that can find him slashing out of doubles.

    Also it is hard to play with guards on the court who cant shoot. Remember Andre Roberson? Imagine if he was Royce Oneale. Defense and 40% 3pt shooting. That would have made it a lot easier for KD and Russ. Remember when they played the Warriors and they just left Roberson open in game 7 and he clanked everything?

    Also again NO ONE said Smart shoots like Kyle Korver. Smart has turned himself into an average shooter at a high volume. Meanwhile. Dunn has only had 1 average season. The rest he has been a terrible 3 pt shooter. Its mind boggling that you are trying to act like he isn't a bad 3 pt shooter.
    You single handedly in these two post criticise dunn and praise others simply on 3pt %. You say Marcus smart is better because he shoots 36% and dunn isnt and your basing it off this single year (his worst to date).

    Even in this post your stating Roberson would be better of he shot better (something i dont deny) but your using it as a single catalist for your argument of Dunn being replacable. Roberson is a great example of a wing defender and a good role Filler.

    I mean you dont find it at all rediculous your whole argument revolves around 3pt shooting % as a determination of value. Your being ridiculous comparing Dunn to Roberson as well. Yes Dunns 3pt shooting % is low and even terrible right now. but Dunn also doesnt shoot an abysmal 46% from the FT line. But lets not talk about anything other than 3pt % from your point of view.

    Also once again as far as Smart being a better shooter. 31.5% carear does not make him substantially better than Kris Dunn shooting 30.6%. You say Smart made himself into an average shooter and meanwhile Dunn could not possibly do that.

    My point is still the same. If Dunn was on the Celtics he could easily fill the marcus smart role despite your obsession with shooting 3s He could defend. He could be fiesty. and with a better coach and scheme im sure he would probably also find more open shots. which may lead to taking and potentially making more 3s.

    But the fact is Your whole argument on Dunns worth (or lack there of) is pedistaled on 3pt %. I mean Derrick Rose has shot a lower % than Dunn.... But we ignore it because he does other things well. My problem is how you want to simply overlook what dunn does well (Basically a Patric Beverly or Marcus Smart on the defensive end) Simply based I his 3pt shooting %


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

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  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stunner View Post
    https://youtu.be/ZUGQoYoYJvc


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Bulls Forum.....
    Last edited by Kyben36; 01-29-2020 at 01:33 AM.

  12. #252
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    https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/1...474758145?s=21


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  13. #253
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    Here's my point about Dunn. Not going to continue the argument. Our team will not always look like this. We have talented young players, and probably another good draft pick coming. Our cap has been managed well, Porter is not immovable and we can open a max contract slot. We could be as good as the Celtics in as soon as a year or two. Trading good players because they don't fit our immediate needs is shortsighted,, since we're not going anywhere this year anyway. Every player on this team can be traded, including Lavine who I love, but does that get us better? We all have different opinions of value. The players I would like the Bulls to keep, at least until they get a new coach, are Lavine, Lauri, Carter, Gafford, Dunn, White, Sato, MAYBE Hutchinson. Period. Only two you could get market value for are Lavine and Dunn, but I'm sure our idea of value for those two differ. Trading a young, good player to get a low first rounder who MAY become a good player, or could be nothing, what's the point?

    Question: do you think Valentine or Hutchinson, our last mid round pick guys, are better than Dunn?
    Last edited by infinity2152; 01-29-2020 at 07:05 PM.

  14. #254
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    Only thing Dunn does better offensively than hutch is pass. Hutch is a solid defender where Dunn is a great defender. Valentine is miles ahead of Dunn offensively while Dunn is miles ahead of him defensively. Yall are starting to severly overate Dunn now. I find it hilarious that only Stunner and I defended him around here. No he is in a scheme that shows his ball hawking and now we shouldn't trade him.

  15. #255
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    First, I've been defending Dunn and liked him from the start. I think great defenders are just as valuable as great offensive players. Nobody's saying Dunn is a starter, saying he's a solid, keepable reserve is not a stretch, it's the truth. You're talking about scheme, Valentine has only looked good offensively in spurts, and never great. He's slow and unathletic, pretty good shooter. wasn't saying Dunn is better than both, but he's at least as good, and nobody's clamoring to trade them. The point is what you trade Dunn for is very likely to be Hutch/Valentine level or worse, you're not getting a high first for Dunn probably mid to late first at best.

    And how does scheme account for his great defense, but have no effect on his offense? The entire team is at the bottom of the league offensively, lol, half the time he's playing with 2 other point guards on the floor, lmao!!

    Hilarious is saying you're saying you two were the only one's defending Dunn, now you're the main one trying to trade him, lmao!! What exactly would you expect to get in a trade for him, anyway? If Coby White is really our PG of the future, Dunn would be excellent behind him. Sato can back up 3 positions. Even with Dunn, we're seeing way too much Ardiciacano. How much would he play if we trade Dunn?
    Last edited by infinity2152; 01-30-2020 at 01:17 PM.

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