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  1. #211
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    That's why I asked for thoughts. All good rebuttals.

  2. #212
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    I donít think Baltimore had very good logic in that trade. Arrieta was a top prospect struggling because they changed his throwing motion. Strop was a decent young bullpen prospect. Feldman was a 2 win player. They still had a month to the trade deadline and were 3.5 out behind a better Red Sox team and chasing a better Texas team for the top WC. They were just chasing relevancy. That wasnít a trade they made because they thought it would be impactful. It was a bad process and the results made it look horrible.

    Good logic doesnít mean they have a reason in their head. Joe could hit Almora 3rd because heís 4 for 5 against a certain pitcher. Thatís a reason, but itís not good logic.

    If your school doesnít reward logic and process you need a better school. If your business doesnít value reasoning and process then itís probably not a very smart company. When you are in an industry that has an established process that leads to proven results more often than not, you value that process. If someone defies that process and gets a good outcome, you want to learn why. If their process is actually more effective then you adjust, but if itís just a good outcome with a bad process, I wouldnít value that outcome very highly. Itís not about getting a sticker, itís about a process for long term predictable success.

    The GMs who produce great results long term (like Theo) do typically have a good process. They still have bad outcomes on certain deals (like Theo has). But if you trust that the process is good, you know more often than not the outcomes will be good (as they have been for Theo).
    You donít think Baltimore had good logic before the trade? You donít know what process Duquette used but I am sure he could take you through it and show why he did it and it and make it logical. The results have made it awful. Its easy to say in hindsight their process was lousy.

    Not everything can or should be analytical. Its almost like a computer program should be the sole basis on doing anything from lineups to trades. We donít need GMís, we donít need managers. Just let the computer decide everything. I do not agree with that. If Joe put Almora in the 3 spot and he produced great results I expect he would get a pat on the back for it, not get ripped because analytically it didnít make sense. Guys keep and lose their jobs on results, not sound process if that process does not produce the desired results. Theo likely had a great process when he signed some of the bad free agents. He should not get a pass on them because they were logical at the time. The results of these signings have crippled the payroll and they are not producing the expected results. Thatís the bottom line.

    We agree to disagree.

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    9,059

    8/13-8/15: Cubs (64-54) @ Phillies (60-58) IGT: The Not An NLDS Preview Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvaged Ship View Post
    You donít think Baltimore had good logic before the trade? You donít know what process Duquette used but I am sure he could take you through it and show why he did it and it and make it logical. The results have made it awful. Its easy to say in hindsight their process was lousy.

    Not everything can or should be analytical. Its almost like a computer program should be the sole basis on doing anything from lineups to trades. We donít need GMís, we donít need managers. Just let the computer decide everything. I do not agree with that. If Joe put Almora in the 3 spot and he produced great results I expect he would get a pat on the back for it, not get ripped because analytically it didnít make sense. Guys keep and lose their jobs on results, not sound process if that process does not produce the desired results. Theo likely had a great process when he signed some of the bad free agents. He should not get a pass on them because they were logical at the time. The results of these signings have crippled the payroll and they are not producing the expected results. Thatís the bottom line.

    We agree to disagree.
    I think the issue here is that you donít understand what ďgood logicĒ means. It doesnít mean they had a reason for it in their heads. It means that itís actually a smart thing to do before doing it. If something isnít good logic, you canít just ďmake it logicalĒ by explaining your bad logic.

    It was a month before the deadline. They gave up 2 players with upside. They were chasing teams better than them. They were acquiring a 3 month rental of a 2 win player. Thatís not good logic. Thatís chasing relevancy.

    Your strawman arguments of not needing GMs and managers are ridiculous, but yes, every major transaction among billion dollar organizations should be analytically sound.
    Last edited by CP_414; 08-14-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #214
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    Jul 2010
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    7,651
    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    I think the issue here is that you donít understand what ďgood logicĒ means. It doesnít mean they had a reason for it in their heads. It means that itís actually a smart thing to do before doing it. If something isnít good logic, you canít just ďmake it logicalĒ by explaining your bad logic.

    It was a month before the deadline. They gave up 2 players with upside. They were chasing teams better than them. They were acquiring a 3 month rental of a 2 win player. Thatís not good logic. Thatís chasing relevancy.

    Your strawman arguments of not needing GMs and managers are ridiculous, but yes, every major transaction among billion dollar organizations should be analytically sound.
    Agree to disagree

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Addison, IL
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    21,130
    Phillies calling up Logan Morrison from Triple-A.

    Hitting a combined .308/.369/.640 between Yankees and Phillies minor league teams in 2019

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  6. #216
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    Jan 2005
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    This process/results back and forth makes me feel like I need to break out another blackjack analogy.

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Addison, IL
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    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  8. #218
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    Nov 2014
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    9,059
    Quote Originally Posted by davearm View Post
    This process/results back and forth makes me feel like I need to break out another blackjack analogy.
    ďI hit on 18 and got a 3! It was smart.Ē

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    265
    Rizzo has been the backbone of this offense for a while now. He really hasnít been the same offensively for the past few months. He crowds the plate and seems to be drilling the inside pitch foul every time. Heís been getting gassed up with the fastball and is striking out a lot more especially with pitches in the dirt where he would usually take and walk. Last year he had a bad beginning for about a month then changed it around. Hope he starts to come around soon, he was always someone who I knew always came through clutch for us.

  10. #220
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    Jul 2007
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    13,110
    Quote Originally Posted by davearm View Post
    This process/results back and forth makes me feel like I need to break out another blackjack analogy.
    Interesting. I remember being at a table with a guy that kept doubling down whenever he had 12 or 13. He did it several times. And every time he did the dealer had to call the pit boss over by saying "doubling down on a losing hand". Now, he did win a few. So, that said, was that a good thought process, or did he have good results with a bad decision a few times? Based on the dealer having to say what he said. my guess is the house did not consider that move to be a good move. BTW, neither did I.

  11. #221
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    Sep 2007
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    Addison, IL
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    21,130

    8/13-8/15: Cubs (64-54) @ Phillies (60-58) IGT: The Not An NLDS Preview Edition

    Original lineup had Heyward leading off and in CF:


    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  12. #222
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    3,715
    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    Original lineup had Heyward leading off and in CF:

    ...but he was just scratched due to left knee inflammation. New lineup is below:
    When I read that Heyward was scratched I was immediately angry thinking the further I scrolled down I would see Almora leading off. Thank you Joe for listening to us

  13. #223
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Elgin, IL
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    816
    Bryant has been taking some Javy cuts and balls way off the plate and in the dirt.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #224
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    Jul 2018
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    2,952
    Gotta feeling this one not gonna go to good...

  15. #225
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    Jul 2018
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    2,952
    Yep... think I'm gonna watch something else tonight..

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