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  1. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    There are plenty of other options for home protection.
    some may be more comfortable with the AR-15 because of it's intimidation.

    this was also the gun used to confront and chase the one church shooter.

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...herland-church

    When President Donald Trump spoke Friday at the NRA’s annual meeting in Indianapolis, Ind., he introduced Stephen Willeford, a Texas man who used his own AR-15 to stop Devin Patrick Kelley, the man behind what is considered to be the deadliest mass shooting in Texas history at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in 2017.

    Willeford said if it weren’t for his “2nd Amendment rights and the right to carry an AR-15 - the same style gun” that the gunman had, “then I would have been outgunned myself, and if it were not for God covering me and protecting me, I would not have been successful that day.”

    “My daughter came into my bedroom and said, ‘Dad, doesn't that sound like gunfire to you?’ I ran to my window thinking it was someone tapping at the window. And she said, ‘No, come into the kitchen,’ where I immediately said, ‘It is gunfire.’ My daughter was an NRA distinguished expert when she was eight years old. All three of my children -- my other daughter and my son -- were NRA distinguished experts by the time they were eight years old. I was an NRA instructor.

    I ran to my safe, and my daughter ran outside -- ran out to her car, got in the car, and ran reconnaissance for me. She ran up to the corner and came back while I was getting a gun out of my safe and loading it. And she said, Dad, there's a man in black tactical gear shooting up the church. And I said, ‘Did you call 911?’ And she said, ‘I did. They're aware of it.’ Right away, they told me police were coming but I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait.

    Our police department in Wilson County has some of the best officers in this world, and they were racing as fast as they could, but my community couldn't wait for them. I ran out the door, and I told my daughter to load another magazine for me because I gave her busy work. I didn't want her to be there if I failed, and I didn't want her to be there for a target for him.

    The Holy Spirit took over me at that moment, and as I ran across the street, I yelled out. The gunman heard me inside and so did some of the people from the church. So did my own daughter. He came running out of the church and started shooting at me. I put two shots center mass. He stopped shooting at me and ran to his vehicle. The two shots center mass -- he had class III body armor on -- they made no difference, but when he ran and turned around his door to his vehicle, I put one in his side and one in his legs.

    He got in his vehicle. He put two more shots through the side window. I put one where I perceived his head to be and shot through the window. He took off and ran away down the street, and I'm thinking, ‘Oh, my God, he's getting away.’ I ran out into the street and took one more shot that went through his back window, penetrated the driver's side seat, and hit him just right of the left shoulder blade. He continued to run.

    I met up with a man that was just parked and watched the whole thing, and everybody in this world would have just driven on, but this is Texas. We aren’t known for our sanity. I found out later his name is Johnny, and I got in the truck with Johnny, and we gave chase. And at the end, the gunman, being the coward that he was, took his own life.

    Inside the church were more heroes than we can even talk about in our limited amount of time, but I'm here today to talk about the fact that I used my own AR-15 to confront a shooter that had dropped fifteen 30-round magazines in my church. He murdered 26 people and injured 20 more. There were only seven people that walked out of that church without a gunshot wound."
    keeping certain people from having the AR-15 is fine if they are people that shouldn't own a gun, but I don't think it's fair to simply remove/confiscate it from everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Either care about all of it like a decent human being or shut the **** up and stop selective outrage based on whether it serves your political purposes.

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome
    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  2. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Are you for going after handguns? I agree with your point, but I think we are at least another generation or two from that being palatable. And who knows what things will be like then.

    You can still do some things tho. And it will have an impact, but I do agree that much more can be done if you want to have a true affect on the issue.
    I'm not a "gun person" so I don't really care, I just find all the AR-15 talk disingenuous.

    Defense Distributed is down the street from me, I can go there and buy all the tooling I need to churn out legal un-serialized Colt 1911 and AR-15 80% guns all day based on files available for free online, and complete them with a trip to any number of local stores.

    With 3d printing growing and evolving VERY quickly and no real way to remove the knowledge from the internet I think the whole debate is essentially out of time so it doesn't really matter.

  3. #1143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I'm not a "gun person" so I don't really care, I just find all the AR-15 talk disingenuous.

    Defense Distributed is down the street from me, I can go there and buy all the tooling I need to churn out legal un-serialized Colt 1911 and AR-15 80% guns all day based on files available for free online, and complete them with a trip to any number of local stores.

    With 3d printing growing and evolving VERY quickly and no real way to remove the knowledge from the internet I think the whole debate is essentially out of time so it doesn't really matter.
    I think you simply the 3D printing argument especially when it comes to more complex guns.

    Also those plans would have to be downloaded which like bomb plans can round up the motivated stupid more often than you’d think.

    I am largely unmotivated as well by it because it’s a flash issue with more bark than bite. That said it’s relatively easy to fix as well.


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  4. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    According to FBI data in any given year, for every person murdered with a rifle (of any sort, not just the AR-15), there are 4 murdered with a knife or other sharp object, 1.7 with hands or fists, 1.2 with blunt objects, and 15 murdered with handguns.

    According to the NY Times, the average number of deaths per year attributed to the AR-15 over the last decade is 17 a year which is less than .1% of US homicides.

    Going after the AR-15 is security theater. It's an empty action.

    Anybody who doesn't go after handguns isn't really trying to stop gun violence.
    I do not believe that AR-15 are the only weapons we should target. But they are the one that is used almost universally in mass shootings. We already have some restrictions on knives, but if you would like more we can talk about it.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  5. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    I think you simply the 3D printing argument especially when it comes to more complex guns.

    Also those plans would have to be downloaded which like bomb plans can round up the motivated stupid more often than you’d think.

    I am largely unmotivated as well by it because it’s a flash issue with more bark than bite. That said it’s relatively easy to fix as well.
    The milling process is easy.
    Downloading the plans anonymously is easy.

    There is always some willing to chase a profit, invest a few grand in the gun mill and I can sell those gun parts all day, including to the motivated or un-motivated stupid out there.

    What is the "easy" fix?

  6. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I do not believe that AR-15 are the only weapons we should target. But they are the one that is used almost universally in mass shootings. We already have some restrictions on knives, but if you would like more we can talk about it.
    There is no evidence that the AR-15 is used close to universally in mass shootings.

    I live in Texas, there are literally NO restrictions on knives, and just this year there are now no restrictions on clubs, saps, and brass knuckles now too.

  7. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    some may be more comfortable with the AR-15 because of it's intimidation.

    this was also the gun used to confront and chase the one church shooter.

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...herland-church



    keeping certain people from having the AR-15 is fine if they are people that shouldn't own a gun, but I don't think it's fair to simply remove/confiscate it from everyone.
    Now the wagons begin to circle on this discussion. You are welcome to look at my previous posts on this thread for context but here is the TL;DR: Guns should not be banned; More strict license and screening; Actually keep track of guns. However, the case for firearms that are considered "assault" is something that should be looked into more. The fact that citizens feel the need to use military grade weapons to defend themselves is the issue.

    Again as I have mentioned in previous post, the US does not know where most of the almost 400,000,000 guns in the U.S. are (only about a third of these firearms are registered according to Small Arms Survey). That is a problem. I understand the example you presented that someone felt that they would be "outgunned" if they didn't have that assault weapon themselves, but my question is why did the U.S. get to this point in the first place?


    For example, certain industrial grade chemicals are not allowed to be purchased by the public, if someone does purchase them, they are completely tracked "cradle to grave" in the United States, because of their potential danger for the public. This would be the type of system that the U.S. should have in place with firearms, ideally, but specifically for assault style firearms (although this would be a longer term installation due to a variety of obvious factors).

  8. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    According to FBI data in any given year, for every person murdered with a rifle (of any sort, not just the AR-15), there are 4 murdered with a knife or other sharp object, 1.7 with hands or fists, 1.2 with blunt objects, and 15 murdered with handguns.

    According to the NY Times, the average number of deaths per year attributed to the AR-15 over the last decade is 17 a year which is less than .1% of US homicides.

    Going after the AR-15 is security theater. It's an empty action.

    Anybody who doesn't go after handguns isn't really trying to stop gun violence.
    Be careful what you wish for. This is not an argument against going after rifles, this is an argument for why we should be going after handguns as well.

  9. #1149
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    I don't really believe Beto would actually try to do this if he were actually president. I'm also not certain that is the right move politically, and I only say that because I know Beto only cares about saying/doing what's most advantageous to him. Anyways...

    I also think every gun owner threatening to kill anyone who comes after their guns once again is another great argument to do just that. The point I made but sailed over Brewers' head when I talked about Tucker and John McCain's Daughter alluding to the mass violence that would break out over gun buy-back programs (not even what Beto's saying now).
    Hello there! Welcome to ManRam v8.00.
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  10. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Be careful what you wish for. This is not an argument against going after rifles, this is an argument for why we should be going after handguns as well.
    I know that. It's why I keep bringing up handguns when people talk about ARs. Going after ARs is just security theater, it's big political capital for a negligible gain.

  11. #1151
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    A comprehensive register of all firearms. They can track most cars. They can track most dogs. They can even track me, so they sure as heckfire can try to track most firearms.
    Last edited by Scoots; 09-13-2019 at 09:10 PM. Reason: filter dodging

  12. #1152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I don't really believe Beto would actually try to do this if he were actually president. I'm also not certain that is the right move politically, and I only say that because I know Beto only cares about saying/doing what's most advantageous to him. Anyways...

    I also think every gun owner threatening to kill anyone who comes after their guns once again is another great argument to do just that. The point I made but sailed over Brewers' head when I talked about Tucker and John McCain's Daughter alluding to the mass violence that would break out over gun buy-back programs (not even what Beto's saying now).
    Gotta love the mindset here. 'You threaten to do what the 2nd Amendment was drafted for, prevent government overreach! You're a white supremacist maniac who shouldn't have rights!'

  13. #1153
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Let me know please. Go ahead and take his post on your phone and tell me what that I missed. There was nothing to read outside of the cliff notes bill he posted. If you can expand, id be very appreciative.
    Yyeeaahh....I absolutely do not care enough to bother. Was merely telling you it's super simple to find a word or phrase within a web page whether you're on a desktop computer or a mobile phone.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  14. 09-13-2019, 10:08 PM
    Reason
    Leave the insults out of it. You can get your point across without them. - Rush

  15. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    According to FBI data in any given year, for every person murdered with a rifle (of any sort, not just the AR-15), there are 4 murdered with a knife or other sharp object, 1.7 with hands or fists, 1.2 with blunt objects, and 15 murdered with handguns.

    According to the NY Times, the average number of deaths per year attributed to the AR-15 over the last decade is 17 a year which is less than .1% of US homicides.

    Going after the AR-15 is security theater. It's an empty action.

    Anybody who doesn't go after handguns isn't really trying to stop gun violence.
    Well it seems that guy in the favorite of mass shooters now.

    Won’t be able to stop all gun violence, but that particular gun is becoming a big problem.

  16. #1155
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Gotta love the mindset here. 'You threaten to do what the 2nd Amendment was drafted for, prevent government overreach! You're a white supremacist maniac who shouldn't have rights!'
    I said nothing about white supremacy. You have issues my man.
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